Kentucky pistol for deer hunting?

[tguil]

Short story. I'm a traditional bowhunter who messed up a finger and can't draw my bow right now. Muzzleloader deer season is open as well as archery season. I have a 1970's CVA .45 caliber Kentucky pistol. Is there a load that would work for very short range on deer...20 yards or less? (I don't shoot all that much black powder, but I am very much OK with short range centerfire handgun hunting and yes, I can get that close to deer.)

 

[jethro224]

I can't give you any particular load advice for that pistol but would recommend that you use a conical and as stout a powder charge as the pistol will handle. With the short barrel it will be hard to get a decent energy level. And do get close.

Here in Illinois the regs state that a 500 ft/lb muzzle energy is required for deer hunting with blackpowder pistols. I went with a .54 to get that level using a patched round ball over 50 grains of 3F Goex.
Even the .50 Great Plains Pistol would have required a ball-ette with the 50 grain factory recommended max load.

In addition to the minimum muzzle energy Illinois, in their infinite wisdom :rotf: , does not allow BP pistols during the muzzleloader season or the firearm season. Only during the late-winter-antlerless-only season are we allowed to hunt with a BP pistol. By then the deer are all spooky and herded up. Makes it mighty hard to get close enough to the right deer for the right shot. I'm still trying.

Be sure and study up on your state's regs before you try.

 

[crockett]

I agree, the problem isn't the pistol, it is that it is a pistol in 45 caliber. Pretty marginal. If you can do a 20 yard broadside right through the ribs, then ok if legal. At that short range the mentioned ball-ette may be accurate enough, a lot of pistols have a fast rate of twist.
Opinion...really marginal. But people kill deer with 22 rimfire, so will it kill a deer if everything is just right. I guess yes, but you'll really have to limit yourself.

 

[LRB]

A friend shot a doe at about 20 yrds using a Colt type 60 Army .44, loaded with round ball. The ball went clear through the ribs and out the other side. Ran a few yards and hit the ground dead.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Shot placement and range and you can kill a deer with a 2mm Kolibri with it's 7 ft/lbs muzzle energy.

Close range, I don't see why not. As I recall the CVA Kentucky pistol had a 7/8 barrel 10 inches long. It should be able to handle 45 or 50 grains of fffg. The earlier pistols they sold had very shallow rifling and were actually good candidates for conical bullets. The later ones with deep round ball rifling are good with round balls but conicals have too much blow by.

It wouldn't be legal for deer here in PA. minimum of 50 caliber. Some states have both a minimum caliber and minimum barrel length for pistols.

There's an on-line video of a guy shooting a deer with one of those long barrel bounty hunter pistols.

 

[Don]

I have two CVA Kentucky pistols in .45 and both are very accurate. With a 35 grain charge of Pyrodex P and a round ball I can get muzzle energies in excess of 300ft/lbs. This is probably sufficiant power to kill a deer at 20 yards but it may not be legal. Check with your fish and game department before making a decission.

Don

 

[BEP]

I have two of those CVA 70s era .45 caliber Kentucky pistols; one percussion and one flintlock. The problem and limiting factor with these pistols is the way the barrel is held to the stock. There is a tang bolt and there is a small amount of wood from the stock that protrudes under the brass nosecap. There are no underbarrel pins or wedges. There have been folks that have posted pictures on this forum of that wood under the nosecap breaking off when stout loads are fired in these pistols.

And I assembled both of my pistols from kits. The wood is not maple or walnut. I don't know what it is but I do remember that it is kind of soft. I would be afraid of the stock breaking at the nosecap with stout hunting loads.

Just something to think about.

 

[tguil]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have 440 round balls but would conicals be a better choice. What approximate load would I need to get 400ft/lb muzzle energy? Again, I'll not shoot unless I'm "up close and personal".

 

[LRB]

I believe a round ball would do better. Placement is more important than power, and at that range the RB should expand better. IMO. A pistol barrel, or any ML barrel, will only burn so much powder. The rest is just blown out, and causes unnecessary pressure in doing so. I would go with whatever it will burn, as long as accuracy doesn't suffer.

 

[aeatwood]

I agree. Forget the conical, and start working up about 30gr of FFFg, stopping about 50 gr. If the patches start getting chewed, stop, and maybe try FFg. 30-35 gr should punch through broadside at 20 yards.

No head shots, no neck shots, and no quartering shots.

Alan

 

I disagree, if you have a fast twist barrel, you'll be far better off with a good conical than roundball. It won't need a lot of velocity to be effective.

 

[armymedic.2]

i honestly don't understand calling the 45 round ball marginal at 20 yards. 40 grains of 3f goex behind my hand cast ball goes through 2 2x4s without even thinking about stopping (my shotgun-tuna can test for deer). i also don't lose much elevation from my 30 yard zero out to 70 yards.....seems its going along just fine.

of course shot placement is everything, but it is with my 300 rum too. just cause its powerful doesn't mean your good to go, and just because its "weak" by todays standards doesn't mean it isn't a great choice.

go hunt, have fun!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have 440 round balls but would conicals be a better choice. What approximate load would I need to get 400ft/lb muzzle energy? Again, I'll not shoot unless I'm "up close and personal".

Stick with the round balls. Do practice before going hunting. And check your state regs.

 

[Dphar]

Short story. I'm a traditional bowhunter who messed up a finger and can't draw my bow right now. Muzzleloader deer season is open as well as archery season. I have a 1970's CVA .45 caliber Kentucky pistol. Is there a load that would work for very short range on deer...20 yards or less? (I don't shoot all that much black powder, but I am very much OK with short range centerfire handgun hunting and yes, I can get that close to deer.)

45 will work round ball and 45-50 gr of FFF. I would prefer a 50 or 54. Shot placement, as I am sure you know, is the important point. 1000 fps+ MV is nice too.
But bear in mind with a good heart/lung shot the deer may make 100 yards plus. Beware the heavy leg bone that often covers the heart.
This a is 54 RB from a pistol and the upper leg bone it broke at about 25 yards +-. Deer ran about 35-40 yards and piled up. Grown Mule Deer doe. Ball got the heart or the arteries, can't remember which. Its been perhaps 15 years ago.
Bear in mind this ball weighs about 220 gr+- and was driven by 70 gr of FFF.

A 45 may (probably) not have continued on to the far side hide or may have deflected after striking such a heavy bone.
As it is the ball is damaged in both sides, having a lot of marking on the side facing down here, that I think, based on experience, is from initial impact and a nice smooth bone print on what I think is the back possibly from a rib. Not surprising given what it did prior to entering the chest and that it was shot from a 1:70 twist.

"Front" of the ball

Dan

 

[Dphar]

i honestly don't understand calling the 45 round ball marginal at 20 yards. 40 grains of 3f goex behind my hand cast ball goes through 2 2x4s without even thinking about stopping (my shotgun-tuna can test for deer). i also don't lose much elevation from my 30 yard zero out to 70 yards.....seems its going along just fine.

of course shot placement is everything, but it is with my 300 rum too. just cause its powerful doesn't mean your good to go, and just because its "weak" by todays standards doesn't mean it isn't a great choice.

go hunt, have fun!

Hi Armymedic
I am sure you understand this but I seems to require repeating several time a year here so here goes, again :grin:

"The round ball won't work myth" comes from gunwriters trying to sell conicals and "modern MLs" for magazine advertisers. Its as simple as that. It has nothing to do with effectiveness.

Shot placement is far more important than projectile, I have friends who have killed many deer with a 22 LR. If identically placed a RB of 45 caliber will kill a deer as fast as any conical MAYBE FASTER at BP velocities. Now does the RB perhaps require more care is placing the shot? Sure. I can shoot through a deer from any angle with a 350-400 gr bullet from a BP 45-70. But I don't. I use the same shot placement as I would with a RB and the deer lives just about as long in either case.
Sure, the conical will produce more energy on PAPER.
However, and this a BIG however, at the velocity generated with BP ENERGY NUMBERS ARE MEANINGLESS.
My son killed his first deer with a 45 rifle with 45 gr of FFF at about 50 yards. One shot kill.
Impact velocity was probably not much different than a heavily loaded pistol at 20. All the modern "experts" will tell you this load is inadequate. Yet the deer ran no farther than some I have shot with a 44-90 Sharps with a soft 1:40 tin:lead, large flatpoint, 400 gr bullet and 92 gr of FF at similar ranges. The impact velocity was HIGHER for the Sharps. So how does the conical work better?
Add to the mix the fact that conicals are more likely to move off the powder we really have a practical projectile.

If a .775+- round ball driven by 167 gr of BP will kill African Elephants with a live weight approaching 10000 pounds reliably with lung shots. Or a 50-54 RB will kill large animals like American Bison and Moose at ranges many would think impossible (from both historical and modern accounts).
With this in mind why would we believe that a 45 caliber ball will not kill an animal that only weighs maybe 300 pounds?

Because magazines have to sell advertising and a number of people in MLing are either in debt to the bullet/"modern ML" makers or BELIEVE what these shills write as fact when is reality its simply ADVERTISING.
I have shot a considerable number of deer and elk with BP. In cartridge guns with elongated bullets and with MLs using the RB. In REALITY there is NO DIFFERENCE in killing power UNLESS the range is extended past 200 yards simply because of the velocity loss the round ball suffers.
This said a friend shot an antelope at 238 yards with a 54 RB. Ball past through.
Why a long shot? 1st he is very experienced and an exceptional shot AND because the "long range" hunters with modern magnums shooting at 600 to 1000 yards + have the Antelope so on alert that getting close enough for a ML shot is almost impossible where he hunts so he risked it. He called it a "scratch shot" but it was a one shot kill.

Dan

 

[crockett]

Well I'd pay attention to Wick. If the 44 Cap and Ball did the trick then that's good data. I think those guns hold no more than around 30 grains of FFFg and you could up that in a single shot. I have a 50 caliber single shot I load with 37 grains which is a mild load to me- use it for target practice. Maybe you could add some tape around the barrel and stock- like a barrel band- to add some strength. On the PRB- the round ball loses velocity which is its big drawback but at a very close range that should not be much of an issue. I may be wrong but overdoing the powder charge may be unproductive- someone said the velocity of a RB can only be pushed so far. Say maybe a 40 grain charge in the pistol as a top load??

 

[tguil]

I worked up to 40 grains with the 440 round ball. I think that I am OK out to twenty yards. Now I just have to get that close to a deer.