Kentucky rifle kits

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

Getin' ready to build a once-n-fer-all Kentucky rifle from a kit and I figure you folks might put me on the right trail. ( scratch built is not fer me - see the photo forum )
Anyway, lookin' for the best fittin' stock inletting work and parts and am not too concerned about the price since I'll only be makin' one and have a couple of cartridge rifles to sell to finance the project. Here is the style I prefer...

Crocket rifle

 

[musketman]

Jim Chambers sells "almost done" kits that are top of the line...

http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles.htm

 

[Birddog6]

Yes, I were you I would buy the kit from Jim Chambers. All I have seen of his products are top quality.

 

[Zonie]

I just looked thru TOWs new catalog and I don't see any stock blank that looks like what you would need to start with.

Looking thru Pecatonica Rivers book it looks to me like if you start with a J.Dickert shaped stock and sanded a little "Roman nose" style curve into the comb you would have the shape your looking for.

Susie at Muzzleloaders Builders Supply has the exact patchbox. They call it a Davy Crockett style. In catalog #11 it was part number 10335 for brass.
The lock shape looks a lot like a large Siler to me.

Hope this helps.

 

[tg]

I think one might start by defining a "Kentucky" rifle, this can cover a very broad range of rifle types and time period,as it is used as a some what generic term, a bit of study on the history of the American longfifle would be a good place to start.

 

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

tg -

They's all Kentucky rifles to me... Once I see the one I like, then I'll get perticular about the name. :winking:

 

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

Zonie -

Thanks... thats it!

Add that to a Dickert - Lancaster style rifle and I'd be plum tickled!

 

[Zonie]

LEJ: The Dickert is a Lancaster School rifle with a straight comb which will need some rounding to get the combs curve shown in the Crockett pictures. It looks like it has some Reading Co. shape to it.
The advantage of using the Dickert stock is it has enough wood to permit you to shape it correctly. In fact, as Dickert was a earlier gunsmith, the width of the stock as well as the height at the butt is rather large. What this means to you is there is enough wood there to work down to the dimensions you want and perhaps add some "cast" to the location of the butt plate.
This "extra wood" is exactly the reason I didn't suggest one of the TOW kits. They didn't look like they had enough wood on the butt to permit reshaping without ending up to thin (top to bottom).

The Pecatonica River "kit" is pre inlayed for the Siler Lock but you don't want to buy the kit as the butt plate, trigger guard, side plate and thimbels will be wrong.
What you want to order is "the Dickert stock inletted for a Syler Flint Lock, a ?/8 ramrod and a ??/16 GM barrel."
I would also consider buying the barrel from them and having them machine the sight dovetails (at whatever location you want if you tell them what it is)($5.00 each) and install the breech plug ($15.00). Small price to pay for 3 important things.

If your going to order the patchbox from Muzzleloader Builders Supply (501-292-8866), you should order their catalog. In it, you will find the proper butt plate, trigger guard etc so you can order it all at one time.

 

[tg]

I did not see the mention of the choice of the Crocket gun, I take it that Caywood has made this from the original, anyone hear of any time period of manufacture or area of maker it looks to have an unbridled frizzen, I would think that Davy would have had this gun in the early 1800's? Any info out there on this gun? all my resource info is earlier.

 

[tg]

I put forth the question on another forum and for those who may have an interest the Crocket gun is said to be a York School gun circa 1790.

 

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

Zonie,

As tg suggested, I checked out the York style. Here is a Chambers early York that might work with a bit of rounding, the patchbox you mentioned, triggers and inlays. What do you think?

 

[tg]

the gun may have been made by George Schroyer, there are several of his guns in Kindigs book on "Thoughts on the Kentucky rifle in its Golden Age" stock profile alone is probably the least important factor ib determining where a gun came from with the exception of later Leihigh and Bucks guns styles of carving and furniture details are much more telling, many builders like Haines, Dickert and others used different profiles on different guns.

 

[Zonie]

LEJ: IMO the comb is too straight. Perhaps it has enough wood to get the curve shown in the Link you gave above it's difficult to know without having the rough stock in your hands. I know the Pecatonica "A. Figthorn" (which is a Womelsdorf-Reading school gun)has a similar shape.

Speaking of shapes, yes, the gunsmiths made stocks which didn't look like the County (School) and the furniture in each school does have unique features and shapes which differ from the other schools but speaking in general, IMO the shape of the stock is very much tied to the area in which the gun was made.

Thats why we can make comparisons such as this:

You may note the YORK here looks very much like the YORK posted above in the Chambers pictures and neither have a curved comb like the Reading or Dauphin. Actually the Dauphin is the closest match as it has a flatter underbelly. I don't know anyone making a Dauphin style kit though.

 

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

hmm... or perhaps the Littlestown Fredrick Sell?

 

[Zonie]

The Sell is lookin good.

 

[tg]

I think that if you look closely at the originals in the books by Kindig and Schumway you will find a more relevent comparison than the overlayed sketches shown, Chambers is an early York which would generaly have straighter lines, probably circa 1770,the Crocket gun being from circa 1790 shows the changes between the two times. The above books are a must to try and understand these guns.

 

[Zonie]

"...
I think that if you look closely at the originals in the books by Kindig and Schumway you will find a more relevent comparison than the overlayed sketches shown..."

I couldn't agree more. I am somewhat suprised that you left out James Whisker and Dillin among others I own.

In any case, the issue as I see it, is not where the gun was made, but assuming the one shown in the original post is fairly accurate, and represents the gun desired, what commercial stock is available which can be most easily modified into the same shape.

To my eyes, the Sell looks like it would be easy to modify to the desired shape.

 

[tg]

I would agree with that, there are a very limited number of options to choose form in pre-carves, I don't think any one makes a Golden age York, My point was not to intirely diminish the stock profile but that it is mostly a major factor when buying what pre-carves are available, and we tend to pigeon hole a school or builder by the one offering that is avaiable, I just looked through Kindigs book and found several guns that had a rounded comb abd curved plate the drop differs a bit but the are similar in profiles,#22,#49,#63and #102and they are from Lancaster,Bethlaham,and Lebanon, and RCA2 has a Shoyer#95 from York and a Beck #101 from Lebanon that are close, you can find the similarities throughout most of the schools.