Kibler fowler, a couple of photos,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Buff1958]

Yes, one thing I believe most fail to recognize is that in terms historical correctness, aesthetics, fit, finish etc, our kits are probably better than 90% or more guns built from a blank. Those that build guns in this category don’t always want to admit this to themselves.

These conclusions aren’t from the perspective of a kit gun producer, but rather a respected former high level custom longrifle builder.

Now, this doesn’t mean that building from a blank doesn’t have its benefits. You can learn a great deal, you can get a lot of satisfaction from creating something yourself, there are endless designs and styles that can be built etc.

They are really just different animals that work for different people. I can say with certainty that our business and efforts have brought thousands of people into traditional muzzloading that likely would never have been part of it.

I have built (sorry put together) three of your rifle kits this year and have a fowler coming next week.
I have learned a lot doing it and would have most likely never messed with trying to build a flint lock if your kits were not available.
Thanks for what you do I truly enjoy hunting with your rifles

 

[Buff1958]

I see it’s now costing nearly $1500 for a shipped Kibler kit including the lock... their prices keep climbing. Hoping they don’t price themselves out of the unique niche they’ve made in the market.

I’m also noticing the “encouraged” walnut option is $160 more expensive than either standard maple or cherry... what’s up with that?

I bought an October country flint lock last year. $3,750.00 and about a year wait. I have built one of each of the Kibler kits. They are just as pretty and shoot just as good as the OC rifle. I had bought 3 OC rifles and they are mighty fine guns but the kibler is for sure a bargain for what you end up with

 

[Snooterpup]

I have built (sorry put together) three of your rifle kits this year and have a fowler coming next week.
I have learned a lot doing it and would have most likely never messed with a flint lock if your kits were not available.
Thanks for what you do I truly enjoy hunting with your rifles

Exactly what I meant!!!

 

[Buff1958]

I guarantee you sir, I could easily put one of those kits together. I'm on my fifth gun, and all required much more work to finish than simply shaving some wood from a 98% complete inlet that was done at the factory.

Are you wanting a ribbon or some kind of trophy?

 

[Snooterpup]

Yes, one thing I believe most fail to recognize is that in terms historical correctness, aesthetics, fit, finish etc, our kits are probably better than 90% or more guns built from a blank. Those that build guns in this category don’t always want to admit this to themselves.

These conclusions aren’t from the perspective of a kit gun producer, but rather a respected former high level custom longrifle builder.

Now, this doesn’t mean that building from a blank doesn’t have its benefits. You can learn a great deal, you can get a lot of satisfaction from creating something yourself, there are endless designs and styles that can be built etc.

They are really just different animals that work for different people. I can say with certainty that our business and efforts have brought thousands of people into traditional muzzloading that likely would never have been part of it.

Bravo and well said. You have made historical correctness and quality achievable to those of us without the skills of gifted plank builders or the bank roll to commission one from one of those builders. I and the flintlock community as a whole thank you heartedly.
Snoot

 

[bpd303]

Oh come on. You chromed that thang. Admit it

I had an old Winchester 12ga riot gun that my father had chrome plated when he retired from the Police Dept. I left it with my mother when we moved to AR and never saw it again.

 

[Snooterpup]

Why? The old original builders didn’t often do all of that. Locks were often imported from Europe, mostly England, there were barrel mills that supplied those, there were founders that poured the brass parts and sold them, and imports.

Very true but I did say scratch builders, not plank builders. Scratch builders are in a class by themselves, masters in wood, metal, engraving, carving and art.
Plank builders are artisans also but do not posses all the skills required of someone that can create the entire gun from the raw materials.

 

[Snooterpup]

I guarantee you sir, I could easily put one of those kits together. I'm on my fifth gun, and all required much more work to finish than simply shaving some wood from a 98% complete inlet that was done at the factory.

What a tremendous grasp of the obvious. The rest of us lesser individuals now stand in awe.

 

[Nazgul58]

I guarantee you sir, I could easily put one of those kits together. I'm on my fifth gun, and all required much more work to finish than simply shaving some wood from a 98% complete inlet that was done at the factory.

Since they posted here, they are subject to public scrutiny. It's not bitching, its my observation which I have a right to.

We all anxiously await the future words that proceed from your exalted pie hole as you elucidate and educate us on our deficiencies .

Don

 

[Sidney Smith]

We all anxiously await the future words that proceed from your exalted pie hole as you elucidate and educate us on our deficiencies .

Don

Oh I'll be sure to, don't worry about that.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

You know we already know that building a Kibler kit isn't like building a gun from scratch. It's just nice knowing that you're doing something to personalize your firearm and coming out with a quality product that works and that'll last a lifetime. Sooo can we just have Fun with it. As for me I Can't wait to get my hands on another Kibler kit

I think it’s whatever makes you happy that counts, when I build a rifle I make everything . But they have little value when finished , so every now and again I buy a real one for investment and for its history and craftsmanship , we are fortunate in the uk for old things This month bid is on a 1835 German percussion mountain carbine , got to go on my card
If a guy is happy with his little lot, then he’s a lucky man .

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Why? The old original builders didn’t often do all of that. Locks were often imported from Europe, mostly England, there were barrel mills that supplied those, there were founders that poured the brass parts and sold them, and imports.

Even in uk many barrel blanks came from I gather Holland , they were experts and forged fine Damascus barrel blanks. Indeed a number of blanks were recently found, and one English gun maker is using them to make new modern shotguns, I always try to use an original flintlock , usually off a Bess around £260 plus , very hard to find now,

 

[flatcreek]

The definition of the word build, (construct (something) by putting parts or material together). Olskool was correct in his description of what he was going to and you sir (sidney smith) were very disrespectful and condescending, something we don't need on the platform.

 

[JimFlint]

Where did you get your spring clamp?

 

[mikesto44]

Many of us just like more of a challenge.. Their is nothing wrong with doing a kit. I've done several over the last fifty plus years. Plus as I stated Kibler is probably the easiest to do of any of them. Period..!
Now to the one poster NO I don't make my barrels and locks. Most custom builders don't either ! So get over it...! Or do I think mine are any better than someone else's. No I don't...! Also I could careless...it's a hobby for me and nothing else..an yes I do like his SMR an Fowler especially. Would I buy one no...because I'm cheap an I can make one for a third of the cost... Mine work an put meat on the table. That is all that matters...! Cheers...!

 

[Snooterpup]

Many of us just like more of a challenge.. Their is nothing wrong with doing a kit. I've done several over the last fifty plus years. Plus as I stated Kibler is probably the easiest to do of any of them. Period..!
Now to the one poster NO I don't make my barrels and locks. Most custom builders don't either ! So get over it...! Or do I think mine are any better than someone else's. No I don't...! Also I could careless...it's a hobby for me and nothing else..an yes I do like his SMR an Fowler especially. Would I buy one no...because I'm cheap an I can make one for a third of the cost... Mine work an put meat on the table. That is all that matters...! Cheers...!

No disrespect intended to you! I should have posted my response to someone else’s post.
Some plank builders, (other than your post, not you) disparage kits builders/assemblers.
I merely wanted to point out the 3 levels of knowledge and expertise:
1. Scratch builders making everything
2. Plank builders, obtaining wood and other necessary parts and “building” the rifle. (I have tremendous respect for plank builders as stated many times in my posts.)
3. Kit builders, assembling and finishing the rifle.
There is room for all at the Muzzleloading table from masters like Dave Persons, Herschel House and Wallace Gussler(sp?) right down to kit builders/assemblers.

Best wishers to all!
Snoot

 

[sportster73hp]

No disrespect intended to you! I should have posted my response to someone else’s post.
Some plank builders, (other than your post, not you) disparage kits builders/assemblers.
I merely wanted to point out the 3 levels of knowledge and expertise:
1. Scratch builders making everything
2. Plank builders, obtaining wood and other necessary parts and “building” the rifle. (I have tremendous respect for plank builders as stated many times in my posts.)
3. Kit builders, assembling and finishing the rifle.
There is room for all at the Muzzleloading table from masters like Dave Persons, Herschel House and Wallace Gussler(sp?) right down to kit builders/assemblers.

Best wishers to all!
Snoot

I am amused at how touchy people are getting on this subject.
I have restocked and built from TRS and Kibler kits. I would like to build one from scratch but don’t have the time or facilities. A lock may be doable but not the rifle barrel… smoothbore pistol maybe.

 

[PEARL DRUMS]

All of this petty nonsense reminds me of Mr. Gary Davis. Some of you may have known Gary and a majority probably didn't. Gary sold several THOUSAND osage self bow "blanks". They were 90% tillered and 90% shaped. The buyers had very little work to do to make a fantastic, solid self bow they could smile upon. Gary introduced an amazing amount people into a very niche' hobby as a result. And that hobby was waning horribly. Did those folks build their bow? Heck no they didn't build a bow. But, that wasn't the point. It was perpetuating a hobby before it all went to the wayside. I put together one of Jim's Woodsrunner rifles a month ago and enjoyed every aspect of it. It was a piece of cake and I did nothing but finish the wood, blue the steel, buff the brass and pin it together. I'm proud of the rifle I assembled. And if anything? It inspired me to try a true rifle build one of these days. Give the man a break and realize that what he is doing helps ALL of us. The more demand the more likely the supplies we all need stay available to us.

Relax guys

 

[Gordoncourtney]

All of this petty nonsense reminds me of Mr. Gary Davis. Some of you may have known Gary and a majority probably didn't. Gary sold several THOUSAND osage self bow "blanks". They were 90% tillered and 90% shaped. The buyers had very little work to do to make a fantastic, solid self bow they could smile upon. Gary introduced an amazing amount people into a very niche' hobby as a result. And that hobby was waning horribly. Did those folks build their bow? Heck no they didn't build a bow. But, that wasn't the point. It was perpetuating a hobby before it all went to the wayside. I put together one of Jim's Woodsrunner rifles a month ago and enjoyed every aspect of it. It was a piece of cake and I did nothing but finish the wood, blue the steel, buff the brass and pin it together. I'm proud of the rifle I assembled. And if anything? It inspired me to try a true rifle build one of these days. Give the man a break and realize that what he is doing helps ALL of us. The more demand the more likely the supplies we all need stay available to us.

Relax guys

Hey why get all angry het up. It’s only if somebody tries to pass it as antique , Some people are not inclined or skilled to making things? So they need all the help and kits they can get . Many make a far better job than I can only dream of . I just make wall hangers for pleasure, Dearest friend Tommy up in Maine , says I make ugly guns. But I like them . Ok I can make the barrel and bits , but not the locks, cheaper to buy a derelict gun at auction for bits , or locks off eBay, I can get slabs of walnut for $60 the rest is down to me . I do it as it makes me happy, got all the time in the world at 81. But over the years I buy the odd gun at auction, most percussion , but unmentionable BP cartridge guns are ok like martini 450/400. Like percussion cape guns , I don’t think shooters build guns in uk . Too much regulations. Better go to Pedrosoli , they are ok All I see on this forum is beautiful guns. And I guess happy owners. It’s dark here so not much light for photos. Take care be happy and enjoy i painting and shoot arrows to stop
me going nuts. Haha. Love from across the big pond

 

[olskool]

coming along, i had so many requests to leave it in the white, i decided to oxidize the metal to look like it was left in the white and is a few years old. i will oil the wood with real 100% tung oil, then aged and sealed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,