Kibler Hawken?

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Never would have thought this would turn into a pages long honest discussion with a good smattering of history. I almost deleted it rather than posting it. BTW folks, another of our esteemed colleagues has started a similar thread apparently with some leaked details and a possible timeline.
What's the title of the thread?
Thanks

I found it
 
It is interesting that when Sam Hawken was interviewed for a St. Louis newspaper as one of the early leaders and prominent members of the early St. Louis, he acknowledged that the Ashley Hawken was one of the first rifles that he and Jake built to go out on the plains. Sam never mentioned whether it was a flintlock or percussion lock gun.
Not that its too relevant I made a half stock percussion Hawken then later made a full stocked flint one not trying to prouve any point rather than to pander to the customers fancy. I've done some fairly long & arduous travels in the Canadian Coast range of B C centering on Mount Waddington. first I took pea rifle killed two mule Deer & a Hare. next I took a 451 percussion shot only grouse & hares. then I took a old ex flint double 16 bore left had p' ball' in Case that descent of the Klina Klini took two weeks to reach Knight Inlet Logging camp 'last I took a 490 old rifle for three winged projectile but fed it on swagged Maxis so no patch could cause fire 12 days average trip tine had interesting meetings with large game but wasn't hunting. Tatla lake store to Cumsac creek logging show in Butte Inlet never shot anything just decorated my camps with maxi bullets. Big country last gun Ide choose would be any Hawken .on weight grounds Just Rudyard's view
 
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In my club, GMLGC, we have several members who have seen many original Hawken Rifles and shown them at the Hawken Classic. They have studied when they built their rifles. They pretty much agree with the conclusions made by Hanson.

Jake Hawken and James Lakenan were pretty well documented as being in the gun repair business. Jake and Sam became partners in 1825. Not many rifles are documented as being made other than the one for Ashley in about 1825. It wasn't until later that the clientele of the Hawken Shop could afford their rifles that cost three to five time the cost of a similar caliber eastern rifle, that the brothers could get past the gun repair business. Pushing innovation, their rifles were produced to use the new percussion cap that was demonstrating improved performance. Because of the cost of a Hawken rifle compared to the factory produced rifles by Leman, Tryon, Deringer and others, the most likely rifle seen rifles would have been from one of the East Coast builders. While there might have been a Hawken at the first Rendezvous, it would have been the only one of about 30 to 50 other rifles and many smooth bored guns. One of the reasons for my decision to build a Deringer rifle in flint for my Mountain Man days. Yes, previously, I did build a later J&S type Hawken. I was much younger and stronger fellow then and toting around that 12 pound rifle wasn't the chore that it is now.
I believe the expression is'' I hear you'' Re the weight factor
.Rudyard
 
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