Kibler SMR frizzen broke in two

[JonBishop]

Hello all

I received my Kibler SMR kit Thursday and I immediately went to work on it. I got the barrel and tang fit then went to work on the lock. I disassembled the lock and got the lock plate right. I reassembled the lock and it fit quite nicely. Just a bit of wood to remove for the mainspring. Then I went on to installing the set trigger plate. Just a tiny amount of wood to remove. The triggers were perfect. No filing at all. But the trigger pull in the set position was too light for my liking. So I adjusted the screw. On the fourth try, with the flint in of course, something came off. I thought the flint had broken. Mind you the rifle was in a vise with the lock facing up. I looked closer and something didn’t look right. That’s when I realized the frizzen was gone. I’ve called and emailed Mr. Kibler, I’m waiting on his response. I delve in knife making, so I look at the grain. It looks like a bad heat treat. I’m including pictures so you can have a look. The chunk that is missing I could not find. I know Jim is a busy man and gets lots of calls and emails. Was this something I caused? I checked the lock for functionality two times then I took it apart. All in all I think the frizzen broke on the tenth pull/snap. I think this could be clear as mud but if anyone gets my drift, please comment.

Thanks, Jon

 

[Hatchet-Jack]

Don't worry Jim will take care of you. I had a faulty Frizzen spring for mine. Jim sent me a new one and had me return mine so he could look it over.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Jon,
Jim will make it right. It could very well be a foundry or heat treating problem. I've had this happen with other locks from other makers. Part of it may be the temper was not sufficient for the pan cover or toe. There could also be inclusions in the casting. Let Jim resolve it.

dave

 

[Musketeer]

I don't think it was anything you did, from what you describe. Could be a heat treat issue, as you suspect. Those little dark spots on both pieces look odd. Not sure if it's an inclusion in the steel or just a couple shadows where a tiny piece broke out. I'm sure Jim will handle it to your satisfaction asap.

edit: oops, looks like everything was covered while I was composing my reply. You gotta be quick on the draw 'round these parts.

 

[JonBishop]

I know Jim will make this right. I was concerned it was something I had done. Dave I’m very glad you chimed in. I’ve always taken your posts as gospel l. It makes me feel better that it might not be my fault.
Jon

 

[EC121]

As long as you had a flint in it, there is nothing you could do to cause it.

 

[user 34300]

Based on part of the broken surface being silver and part gray there was a hairline crack. I had this happen with a very expensive chef's knife. Call Jim during business hours. He will send you a new one ASAP.

 

[Joemolf]

That’s unfortunate for you and Kibler. I hope it’s a one in a million failure. Their locks have good reviews.

 

[Joemolf]

I actually received my SMR yesterday afternoon and am going to exercise the lock. There is a guy on YouTube that did an unboxing. With his order he also ordered some spare lock parts. I thought that was a good idea so I ordered the same; hoping I never need them. Spare parts are not cheap probably should have coughed up the xtra cash and bought a complete lock.

 

[rich pierce]

I’d not worry about extra parts. The vast majority of locks serve for many decades without issues.

 

[user 31296]

So how long do you think a frizzen will last for or how many shots can one expect .

 

[Sidney Smith]

I have an entire spare lock for parts. It was a lock kit that I tried to build but could never get to spark. I thought I heat treated the frizzen properly but I guess not. I gave up on it and tossed all the parts in a bag and ordered a completed lock. But if I ever need spares, I have some.

 

[JonBishop]

Rich Pierce, I would have to agree with this statement. You are another that the posts here that makes your comments gospel to me. Thanks for taking the time to post.

Jon

 

[D.Summers]

In response to cliff lee, I've had a large Siler Deluxe for many years. Sparks like crazy after hundreds of shots. Flints are good for 45-65 shots. Well, not all of them, but I've had some flints that just went on and on! Now I have a new rifle with a Kibler lock, and it always goes off, but it doesn't spark as well as the Siler. But I'm still puttering with it!

 

[roundballman]

Don't worry. Jim is the best supplier you will ever work with. He will resolve your issue in short order. He actually cares about having satisfied customers.

 

[Artificer]

I’d not worry about extra parts. The vast majority of locks serve for many decades without issues.

I'm just the opposite. I don't have many long ML guns, so I keep the following list for each lock at a minimum:

Mainspring
Sear Spring
Sear
Set of the 3 internal lock screws

I can't begin to tell how many guys who earlier said no spare lock parts needed to be carried, BUT came to me secretly because they needed a spare part during the shoot or event.

If I was traveling long distance to a shoot or hunt, I carried more parts.

Of course when I was acting as a Team Armorer, I carried even more spare parts and that depended on the guns my Team was using.

Ever even heard of the huge Top Jaw Screw on a M1816 type Musket busting completely in half? I never did until my second night in Coventry, the midlands, UK, during the World Championships in 1996. Imagine the expense and time needed to go to England for a World Shoot, only to have his lock go unserviceable on the first day of practice? Fortunately I had brought a range of sizes of top jaw screws and I had one musket size. Without that spare part, there was no hope of finding a replacement until the Shooter's Match was over and this was his main gun he shot in the matches. He won the Gold Medal Individual Match and led the U.S. Team to another Gold Medal in a 3 gun match.

Gus

 

[FishDFly]

"If I was traveling long distance to a shoot or hunt, I carried more parts."

I carry spare parts when traveling a long distance and the needed tools. It is amazing how often I loan tools to those who need them.

Most times I carry a spare gun.

 

[LRB]

Hello all

I received my Kibler SMR kit Thursday and I immediately went to work on it. I got the barrel and tang fit then went to work on the lock. I disassembled the lock and got the lock plate right. I reassembled the lock and it fit quite nicely. Just a bit of wood to remove for the mainspring. Then I went on to installing the set trigger plate. Just a tiny amount of wood to remove. The triggers were perfect. No filing at all. But the trigger pull in the set position was too light for my liking. So I adjusted the screw. On the fourth try, with the flint in of course, something came off. I thought the flint had broken. Mind you the rifle was in a vise with the lock facing up. I looked closer and something didn’t look right. That’s when I realized the frizzen was gone. I’ve called and emailed Mr. Kibler, I’m waiting on his response. I delve in knife making, so I look at the grain. It looks like a bad heat treat. I’m including pictures so you can have a look. The chunk that is missing I could not find. I know Jim is a busy man and gets lots of calls and emails. Was this something I caused? I checked the lock for functionality two times then I took it apart. All in all I think the frizzen broke on the tenth pull/snap. I think this could be clear as mud but if anyone gets my drift, please comment.

Thanks, JonView attachment 91927View attachment 91928View attachment 91929View attachment 91930

going by photo, appears to be coarse grain, coupled with inclusions , or occlusions. The frizzen may not have been thermo- cycled to refine the grain before hardening.

 

[Art Caputo]

Surely appears to be a heat treating issue. Hopefully, a one-off issue, but I suspect Jim will investigate the process, or perhaps other frizzens comprising that particular batch/lot, particularly since there is another occurrence mentioned in this thread. IMO. It is much better to experience early failures. In my experience, if my locks made it through the first 100 shots without issues, I have not experienced issues for years-decades. While most all my locks have cycles measuring in the hundreds(not thousands), I have yet to replace or re-harden a frizzen on any of my locks(Siler, L&R). The lock on my Kibler Colonial has 100-150 shots on it. It has functioned/sparked very well. I will say that mine, and other Kibler Colonials( I do not own an SMR yet) I have shot do have a heavy mainspring compared to my other locks which gives good sparking but it seems, shorter flint life compared to my other locks.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have a gun with a Roller lock on it that was made in the early 70s, the friend who gave it to me said him and the previous owner put about 50K shots through it. The frizzen was worn very thin and broke in two after about 8 years of use by me.

I sent the lock back to Mr. Roller to see if he had a new frizzen which he did, he also measured all the tolerances in the lock and said they hadn't changed sine he made the lock.

This is my testament to frizzen and lock longevity.