Kit Carson Hawkin Kit

[rabbit03]

:hmm: :cursing: You mean my Big ol 58 aint a copy of the famed Bridger rifle :cursing: :shocked2: :hmm: :grin:

rabbit03 (dangit)

 

[bioprof]

Here's a picture of my finished rifle:

Link

 

It is a nice rifle though :redface: :grin:
The main thing about the parts is the buttplate. No Hawken ever had a buttplate like the one that is sold as a Bridger Hawken BP. The original Bridger Hawken certainly doesn't. The rest of the parts are pretty dead nuts on target. The precarve "Bridger" and "Carson" rifles have a drop that is way to deep for the average Hawken drop. The old Hawkens had a much straighter stock than the modern "copies". The entry pipe on the "Bridger" is cast to heavy which can be remedied by filing about half the weight off. The Devil is in the tiny details. :hmm: A whole bunch of tiny details make a big difference in totality.

 

[rabbit03]

Hey Cooner,

I know the butplate has been the topic of conversation between John and myself many times. Basically he says it isn't correct (which I know is a fact) and my opinion is that it feels too good to fix. I can shoot it all day with nothing more than a t-shirt with not even a bruise!

So the question becomes do I want to build the next one and try to mimmic what was or do I want to leave it alone and stay with what works for me. My thoughts are to keep the next one the same since I am primarily a shooter. I do appreciate an exact copy of anything especially a rifle and envy those who can and do this. But I would rather have a rifle that shoots and fits well too more so than making sure I have the right this or that for the rifle.

rabbit03

ps thanks for your post

 

True enough Rabbit. The buttplate that Ron Long designed for the old Green River Rifle Works Hawken is the same one that the TOTW Bridger Hawken uses. It is indeed a comfortable rifle to shoot. I do want to take this opportunity to say that I am not in the business of criticizing the Bridger and Carson rifles on their quality for the purpose of creating ill will. My purposes are to educate people as to the finer details of the original Hawkens in case they want to incorporate these details in the rifles they are building. More of a help or an aid. They are extremely good rifles and overall they look very close to what an original Hawken looks like. But, the qualifier is they are so close but not exacting in detail. With the kind of shooting that rifle of yours is doing, I wouldn't worry about what the Buttplate looks like. :wink:

 

[rabbit03]

Thanks Cooner I appreciate the input and I know you have a love of the Hawkens as does ol John H..

I want to build Hawken type rifles one day and would like to recreate a high end model really and may decide to go with the other butplate but just not sure yet.

Thanks

rabbit03

 

When ya get ready to build it let me know. There are about 5 copies of Hawken rifle bp's available. It just depends on what era Hawken ya wanna build. If I can be of help...let me know. :thumbsup: At least I'll give ya my opinion in hopes that it will help. :hatsoff:

 

[rabbit03]

Sure appreciate that. :thumbsup:

I am probably going to make this other Bridger kit I have and then maybe try my hand at building one from scratch and see how it goes. I am leaning toward the later period Hawkens though.

rabbit03

 

[Herb]

Meplat, your barrel is a 1x36" Green Mountain .54, right? Do you really want a 37" barrel (with the patent breech)? I've cut some of mine to 32", which makes for a handier rifle. There are originals that have 30.5, 31.25, 32.5, 33, and 34 inch barrels, plus likely 36" also. (I calculated these lengths from photos in John Baird's book "Hawken Rifle, the Mountain Man's Choice"). So you can cut it off if you want to. The stock forend does not get changed, (the 30.5" barrel is a heavy one with a shorter forend and a shorter length of pull. It also has a checkered semi-pistol grip and a big tang mounted peep sight (See also R.L. Wilson's book "Steel Canvas", page 85). You have to cut off the underrib anyway. I scribe a line around the barrel with a square and hacksaw it with a 32 tpi blade. File mooth with a flat file. Check for square. Debur. Took me 20 minutes yesterday. I am also going to cut off my 36" .54 Green River barrel, which I am building into a second Kit Carson rifle, and yes I know about GRRW's "choke".
Two friends who built barrels for the old GRRW told me not to worry about it. I have the catalog from GRRW from 1978 when I built a Leman in their shop, and it says "P.S.-Please don't cut the muzzle off our barrels if you want to shorten it. If you do, you will cut off the choke and lose accuracy thereby. Always shorten the barrel from the breech. May you be forever haunted by the devilish spirit of lost accuracy if you shorten from the muzzle!" (Neill Fields told me the "choke" was a function of how the barrel was rifled, and not something deliberately done. He has no misgivings about cutting it off. And Carney Pace, who worked there, doesn't either. He said I could lap it back in if I wanted it, which I don't. Other modern barrel makers do not mention choke, so it isn't even there in your Green Mountain barrel.

 

[Jack Bickley]

Herb,
I gave that 36" barrel some thought and decided it was still a lot lighter than my Shiloh Sharps at 12 lbs..
The Carson weighs in at 10 lbs, 4 oz. in kit form. At least according to my el cheapo kitchen scale. I suspect just over 9 1/2 lbs. finished.

Thanks,
Meplat