Kits

[pondoro]

I second the SxS flinter, if it was affordable. I realize affordable is a relative term.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Thanks for the imput guys, greatly appreciated. Unfortunatly I don't have the resouces to do alot with those fine suggestions. Basically I have to use locks and barrels that are commonly available on the market. I don't have the capital outlay to start a lock building business...wish I did! Small parts I've been making patterns for and having cast locally.
SXS flint guns seem popular and the parts are all available. Barrels are available from rayl at $1000 a set....so....with some quick figuring....kits for something like that will run $1500-$1800. YIKES! :shocked2:
Here's what I have plans for , you guys can give me your opinions on what I have in mind. (that really leaves the door open! :haha: )
1) 1770 Virginia rifle with a stepped wrist. available in .50 or .54. and 42" barrel
2) 1750 - 65 Birmingham export fowler. 28ga thru 16 ga.44" barrel.
3) English "Carolina gun" 48" 20ga barrel, all hardware and stock pattern taken directly from an original.
4) Type G using the same barrel as the carolina gun, but different stock pattern and hardware of course.
5) Brandenburg styled jeager, ca. 1710 or so. 28" barrel .54 thru .62 cal.
6) english sporting rifle ca 1760 same barrel as jeager.
7)fusil fin ca 1750 - 1760 with a more correct lock and a 46" 20 ga. barrel.
8) been kicking around the idea of a "type D' with a different more PC look to it.
9) British wild fowling gun with a 46" 10 bore barrel.
You fellows think there is a market for any of this stuff?
Most of this stuff is going to have unique hardware on it that hasn't been available before.
Prices will be in line with Chambers kits , I believe in a quality product, with the best locks and barrels you can get on the market today.
I appreciate your imput guys, you can go ahead and tear up my ideas here if you want , I'd be interested to hear what you think. :thumbsup:

 

[Bearbait2]

SXS flint guns seem popular and the parts are all available. Barrels are available from rayl at $1000 a set....so....with some quick figuring....kits for something like that will run $1500-$1800. YIKES! :shocked2:

Mr. Brooks,
If you have time to answer (I appreciate you are quite busy), in this price range, just how much of the work will you have done?
For instance:
Will the barrels be assembled and regulated?
Locks assembled and tuned?
95% inletting of stock?

From time of ordering (and deposit), how long would one expect to have to wait for delivery?

I ask these questions here rather than a PM as am very certain there are others that will be interested in your reply. Fully understanding this may be something you really don't want to get involved with (and will not be offended if you don't), your advice is most appreciated.

If this request for information is deemed inappropiate by those in charge, please feel free to delete.
Best Wishes

 

[Mike Brooks]

I'll answer in a real generic way so as to not get us all in trouble, in fact I'll promote others products and not mine.
Ed Rayle makes double barrels sets that are new made, solderd together and regulated with a standing hook breech fitted to the whole works. he asks $1000 a set. That would be an area where rayl would have to answer your specific questions about regulation.
L&R's little manton locks would be an excellent choice for this project, and they are readily available.
If I were going to tackle designing a kit like this I'd probably do it in 20 bore and have everything but the trigger guard and entry thimble 95% inlet. These parts have finials that wouldn't lend themselves to being pre inlet by machine.
If anyone were going to tackle a project like this they would be at the mercy of the barrel manufacturer and their ability to have these regulated and breeched barrels in stock on demand. Sounds simple, but in reality I expect it wouldn't always be smooth sailing.
This would be a dificult kit to assemble. I can think of a few problem areas right off the top of my head. getting the barrels and tang seated properly will take some skill. The barrel wedge is going to be a HUGE pain in the butt, they always are for me anyway. Drilling the lock and tang bolts thru will be a challenge for a novice too.
This would likely be a kit manufactures nighmare. due to the possibilities of barrel problems.

 

[CrackStock]

 

[CrackStock]

 

[Mike Brooks]

Yes, colerain swamped barrel in the virginia rifle and it's brass mounted with a chambers colonial Virginia lock.
The carolina gun will have a getz barrel,and it's the same barrel as the type G. I'll use the R.E. Davis english lock they put out on the market last year. i've played around with this lock some and it works like a champ.
I don't have any idea what TVM is calling their carolina smooth bore, What I have in mind is patterned directly off of Reeves Goehrings original Carolina gun.
I have the stock pattern and the castings of the original buttplate and tigger guard. This gun generally falls some where in quality between the "Type G" and the Birmingham fowler.

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. Brooks,
Thank you for your appraisal of the situation. And perhaps keeping me out of trouble; from getting in over my head due to my modest skills. Based on this, an in-the-white SxS is about the most I probably should tackle at this time.
Or a used SxS in need of refinishing, possibly.
Best Wishes.

 

[J.M.]

Hi Mike, have you given some consideration to a "beginners kit" where everything was inlet drilled etc and the buyer had to do the final fit and finish? Seems to me this would be a great start for guys looking for a kit other that Lyman, T.C. etc. Might give newbies a chance to put something together to see how its done and give them confidence to tackle something more advanced afterwards. Just my .02 (for what its worth)

 

[Mike Brooks]

I think Tip Curtis has that covered with his in the white kits. Slim them down and finish thewm is all you have to do.

 

[Canerod]

Mike,
Like some, I'm fairly new to building from a kit. Do you have any contact info for Tip Curtis? Maybe a website? I'd love to see someone bridge the gap between an in-the-white gun and a kit similar to a TOW or Chambers. I'd hate to put the money into a good kit and ruin it through a lack of knowledge.

Canerod

 

[tg]

I think you will find a market for the guns you have memntioned Mike, I believe the gun buying public once they take the step past production level guns are looking more and more to the authenticity factor, they used to think it came automaticaly when taking the step up in cost but alas, we know this is rarely the case, I do think the Shrite would be a top seller if one could come up with the pieces, and it goes without saying that I would love to see the French guns available in more true to the original forms, good luck and I hope this venture pans out for you should you take the plunge, I will push your name out here on the west coast to any who may be interested

 

[Swampman]

I like the sound of these. Would the "Type G" and "Type D" have some cast in engraving?

3) English "Carolina gun" 48" 20ga barrel, all hardware and stock pattern taken directly from an original.

4) Type G using the same barrel as the carolina gun, but different stock pattern and hardware of course.

5) Brandenburg styled jeager, ca. 1710 or so. 28" barrel .54 thru .62 cal.

8) been kicking around the idea of a "type D' with a different more PC look to it.

 

[CrackStock]

Mike,

Is there a time frame on all of this?

I generally order and assemble one per year from a new supplier.

Sort of my own private research project.

CS

 

[Mike Brooks]

I like the sound of these. Would the "Type G" and "Type D" have some cast in engraving?

I was thinking of offering these with hand cut engraving as an option. It won't be cheap, but it will be right.
I don't have the funds to make molds for investment casting to be able to offer cast in engraving.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Mike, you could probably start taking pre-orders now There are many cheaper kits and finished guns out there that are being passed off as early guns but cant make the grade. This would offer many people a mid-range ability to get a period correct piece. Chambers offers some good but limited choices for this but your ideas for certain models will take things to the next level
The ones listed below appeal to me.(not in any certain order as the smoothbores would take priority)
I would imiagine your Carolina or Type G would start you afoot the best but the British wild fowing gun or the English export catches my eye every time I go over your list.

Maybe I missed it in the posts but is there any time frame you have set to start this venture with one or two offerings?




1) 1770 Virginia rifle with a stepped wrist. available in .50 or .54. and 42" barrel
2) 1750 - 65 Birmingham export fowler. 28ga thru 16 ga.44" barrel.
3) English "Carolina gun" 48" 20ga barrel, all hardware and stock pattern taken directly from an original.
4) Type G using the same barrel as the carolina gun, but different stock pattern and hardware of course.
9) British wild fowling gun with a 46" 10 bore barrel.
You fellows think there is a market for any of this stuff?