knapping the flint

[snagg]

Howdy:
I have read some of the previous posts on knapping the flint. My question is:

1.) Is there another way of securing the flint so as not to be striking it sharply while secured to the hammer?? It seems to me some damage could occur to the hammer and or related mechanisms internal to the lock??

2.) I only fired my T/C Hawkens 18 times before finding it necessary to flip the flint to the other side. Does this seem somewhat premature?? From my readings on this sites past posts, many of you are getting 2 or 3 times more shots than I did. Perhaps the fact that I am using the factory flint and they don't use a high quality flint for there factory "out of the box" guns.

3.) I have read that an english black flint is the best?? and also that the premium agate flints are the best?? Is this the old " Ford is better than Chevy " argument. Which flint is the better one to buy?

You folks have been very patient with me thus far and I do appreciate all your responses on previous questions.

Thanks again, snagg

 

[dlemaster]

snagg
With the help of musketman, who I hope will help attach a chart to this post, I have a set of comparisons of agate vs chipped flint that was published in the Journal of Historical Armsmaking Technology vol. 4 by the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association from back in 1991.


Regards, Dave

 

[riarcher]

All flints are not equal.
I prefer the black English flints because I've very good luck with them. However, that is not intended to mean they are the best,,, or even good for all folks w/ all locks. Simply, works good for me.

100 uses from all flints? Nope, doesn't work that way. Just like with a Chevy, every once in awhile there's a Friday's lemon in the bag. While most of my flints are good for a high number of strikes, occasionally I'll get one that may only be good for 5 or less, even disintergrate on the first fall, but it's rare.

Question 1, I believe is asking about knapping in the gun? If so, I don't. Not ever. You want to, that's fine, I just don't. I will turn it over when it starts to get weak for a few shots then turn it back again, and continue. But when it needs knapping, it goes into the "used" bag and gets knapped wrapped in leather in a vise at the picknic table while waiting for the burgers to get cooked. I don't knapp in the gun for the very reasons you showed concern over. "Ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure" is something I learned a long time ago. But, to each their own.

 

[roundball]

Howdy:
I have read some of the previous posts on knapping the flint. My question is:

1.) Is there another way of securing the flint so as not to be striking it sharply while secured to the hammer?? It seems to me some damage could occur to the hammer and or related mechanisms internal to the lock??

You're hitting it entirely too hard if you're worried about that...and my guess is it's because you're trying to knapp one of the factory "sawed" agate flints which really can't be knapped in that fashion...they need to be re-edged with a belt sander, a diamond file, etc.

2.) I only fired my T/C Hawkens 18 times before finding it necessary to flip the flint to the other side. Does this seem somewhat premature?? From my readings on this sites past posts, many of you are getting 2 or 3 times more shots than I did. Perhaps the fact that I am using the factory flint and they don't use a high quality flint for there factory "out of the box" guns.

My experience with TC Flintlocks is that 3/4" x 7/8" black English flints are without a doubt head and shoulders above anything else on the market, at a minimum average 40-60 shots without hardly touching them at all, and can be knapped up into the 80's - 90's, etc.

3.) I have read that an english black flint is the best?? and also that the premium agate flints are the best?? Is this the old " Ford is better than Chevy " argument. Which flint is the better one to buy?

3/4" x 7/8" Black English Flints

:thumbsup:

 

[riarcher]

"3/4" x 7/8" Black English Flints :thumbsup: "

9/8 :applause:

 

[dlemaster]

In connection with the chart posted above. It was noted that agates had a tendency to gradually slow, while chipped flints scattered their times randomly.
When both types were installed bevel up they were faster but had a wide standard of deviation. When installed with the bevel down the times were slower but the standard of deviation was smaller.
The chipped flints installed with the bevel down had a much lower standared deviation in the testing of the 4 original locks.

"A Study in Lock Timing" by Larry Pletcher
Journal of Historical Armsmaking Technology vol.4 pgs 66,67

Regards, Dave

 

[Beerd2]

You ain't calling Musketman a "standard deviate" are you? :winking:

I mostly use Frenchy flints in my Tule with good luck.
Also tried the English ones and they worked real good too.

I haven't knapped a flint in a long while, by the time they don't spark good they are usually worn down pretty short so I might turn them around or just put them in my pocket to work on later.

I have used the flint in my gun now for over 40 shots, but have had some go to heck after 3 or 4 shots, so the 18 you are getting is about average.
Try different kinds / sources of flints and if you find one kind that works best, stock up.
..

 

[snagg]

Thanks:

I believe I'll give the Black English flints a go.
I don't recall seeing anything of that description at the gun shop in town, though.

Any recommendations of a good, reliable source for the Black English flints?

Thanks, snagg

 

[roundball]

Thanks:

I believe I'll give the Black English flints a go.
I don't recall seeing anything of that description at the gun shop in town, though.

Any recommendations of a good, reliable source for the Black English flints?

Thanks, snagg

October Country used to have the best price if you buy a bulk bag of 25, 50, 100, etc...talk to John, tell him you were referred by an Internet site...wheel & deal with him a little, etc.
Track of the Wolf carries them also.
Be sure to specificy "Tom Fuller" brand of Black English Flints, 3/4" x 7/8"

 

[Ron LaClair]

I freshen my flints whenever they need it by lightly tapping the edge with my brass knapping tool. To prevent damage to the lock, lay your index finger under the flint as you cradle the gun across your chest. Tap the flint very lightly and your finger will absorb any shock from the tapping.

 

[AZ-Robert]

That's exactly how an old geezer... er... experienced shooter showed me how to do it. He used the back of his knife rather than a hammer, but otherwise the same technique. The gun was loaded, so he put a rag over the lock's flashpan and vent to prevent an accidental spark from getting to the powder.

My first gun came to me with a half-dozen flints in a small bag. They didn't last very long at all... maybe 20 shots per flint. Ordered some of those snazzy Black English flints and now I routinely get 60+ shots out of each flint without knapping. My 2d says the difference in flints is much more real than the old Chevy v. Ford argument.

 

[Ron LaClair]

I've used the back of a knife blade more than a time or two. but if you use steel to knapp the flint, you may cause sparks. So if you have a primed open pan.. :nono: :shake: ...you could have a surprise ignition :shocked2: Be aware of where your muzzle is pointed

Also be aware that when you knapp a flint over a primed pan you'll get slivers of flint in the prime. If you're standing on a shooting line next to another shooter, you'll send those slivers into him when you fire your gun. :nono: :shake:

 

[musketman]

1.) Is there another way of securing the flint so as not to be striking it sharply while secured to the hammer?? It seems to me some damage could occur to the hammer and or related mechanisms internal to the lock??

First, it does not require a heavy strike to knapp a flint, however, I see your concern about adding stress to the sear and notch while the knapping is taking place...

What I do with my flintlock is:

1. Open the frizzen and empty the pan of any priming powder and plug the touch hole... (if the gun is loaded)

2. While the gun is in my lap, hold the hammer between half and full cock with my free hand... (this protects the sear's edge from any transferred shock)

3. Knapp the flint by gently tapping along the leading edge with a small brass hammer, only hard enough to flake the edge sharp...

4. Once done, I allow the hammer to slowly be lowered past the half cock notch, then I pull it back up to fully engage the notch...

 

[Halftail]

Also be aware that when you knapp a flint over a primed pan you'll get slivers of flint in the prime. If you're standing on a shooting line next to another shooter, you'll send those slivers into him when you fire your gun.

Correct me if I'm wrong.I thought the concept was for the Flint to scrape off slivers of The Steel from the frizzen?That was what was the spark,not pieces of flint making the spark.I not all that wise with these flintlock contraptions yet. :v

 

[Rebel]

He means pieces of the flint from the knapping process would fall in the pan and if you fired it before dumping them they will be blown out sideways from the vent blast.

 

[roundball]

He means pieces of the flint from the knapping process would fall in the pan and if you fired it before dumping them they will be blown out sideways from the vent blast.

Like little razor blade frizbees...not a good thing

 

[Rebel]

Especially if you are on the receiving end of them.

 

[Ron LaClair]

Even if there's no little pieces of flint in the pan, you don't want to be too close to the powder residue when it blows outward when ignited.

Remember in the movie The Mountain man with Charlton Heston and Brian Keith, When they were shooting at the Blackfeet and Hestons flintlock blew powder into Kieths face when he was too close to the gun when it discharged? :haha: It obviously wasn't planned. :shake:

 

[musketman]

Correct me if I'm wrong.I thought the concept was for the Flint to scrape off slivers of The Steel from the frizzen?That was what was the spark,not pieces of flint making the spark.I not all that wise with these flintlock contraptions yet. :v

You are correct, it is the shaved bits of frizzen that actually sets the priming powder off, not the chipped flint...

Like sparks off a grinding wheel, the flint removes metal from the frizzen's face, the result is a shower of hot, glowing sparks of metal...