L&R lock tuning

[brain]

is there anything i can do to tune one of these?
i have one of their T/C replacement locks. it just annihilates flints.
english or cut rocks it does not matter, though the saw cut flints last longer.
igination time seems slower than the T/C lock it replaced.

anything i can do, or 'am i SOL?

 

[JeffinNZ]

The case with any lock is to reduce as much friction as possible.
On my Deluxe Siler I stripped it down and polished ever bearing surface until they were like mirrors. Then keep them this way moving forward with maintanence.

 

[Frank/Pa]

I have had 2 L&R locks. A flint Hawken and a Durs Egg, and they both destroyed flints. I don't know if the main spring was to strong or the lock geometry was wrong, but I will never buy another L&R.

 

[paulvallandigham]

polish and smooth all bearing surfaces in the lock, to reduce friction. Then reduce the frizzen spring. It only needs to be about 2 lbs. in tension. Then test the mainspring ( its a coil spring in a T/C lock). If its more than 15 lbs. start reducing coils, by cutting them off on loop at a time. Then , reinstall the spring, and test it again. Put the end with the cut coils on the bottom, so a sharp edge does not hang up the movement of the cock. Same thing with the trigger return spring, or " sear spring " that holds the sear against the tumbler. A too-tight spring there increases unnecessarily the trigger pull. Without a set strigger, a trigger weight of no more than 5 lbs. is more than adequate for good shooting. You do want to polish and smooth the nose of the sear bar, and the full cock notch in the tumbler, by carefully stoning them with carbonundum, or " jeweler's " stones. Be careful to polish, and not change the angles or round the corners. You want a crisp, consistent release of that tumbler when the trigger is pulled slowly.

 

[Birddog6]

Were it me I would sell it on a auction site & put the T/C lock back in it. If you have an older version of the T/C lock you can get it upgraded by them for free & every one I have seen of the upgraded ones worked flawlessly, if the operator did his part right.

:thumbsup:

 

[brain]

Then reduce the frizzen spring. It only needs to be about 2 lbs. in tension.

how do you reduce the spring strength of a "V" spring?

Then test the mainspring ( its a coil spring in a T/C lock).

it's not a T/C lock, not coil springs in it anywhere.

 

[JeffinNZ]

Were it me I would sell it on a auction site & put the T/C lock back in it. If you have an older version of the T/C lock you can get it upgraded by them for free & every one I have seen of the upgraded ones worked flawlessly, if the operator did his part right.

:thumbsup:

HEHEHE. I was to polite to say that Birddog. I remember your threat about coming to NZ and kicking my backside if I bought a L&R..... :blah:

 

[BLAHMAN]

Then reduce the frizzen spring. It only needs to be about 2 lbs. in tension.

how do you reduce the spring strength of a "V" spring?

With a file....File the spring down, do it leangth wise and then use fine sandpaper to polish it up.

 

[Donny]

I don't understand why would anyone buy a L&R flintlock? ? ? ? :shake: there is enough information everywhere on how second rate they are. :shocked2:

 

[MikeChapin]

I don't understand why would anyone buy a L&R flintlock? ? ? ? :shake: there is enough information everywhere on how second rate they are. :shocked2:

I have always had good luck with them. I have two rifles with Manton and one with a Large English lock. My Tennessee with a Manton is almost as fast as a percussion and will get 50+ shots from a flint and still work well with the flint down to a nubbin.

The Large English is a little harder on flints. I generally get 30-40 shots from a flint. It will keep sparking until the flint is worn almost flat. I will qualify the statement that each of these locks are about 25 years old. Don't know if the quality of these locks have gone down over that time period.

A friend of mine just built a rifle that he used an L&R Dickert on. He says it is the fastest lock he has ever used. That is quite an endorsement. He builds a lot of rifles and is one of the best shots in the state. He has been at this for 25+ years and has used many differnt locks on his rifles. Not a person who is easily impressed.

 

[Dave K]

I understand by talking to some lock tuners, that the earlier L&R's were much better in their qualtiy control. My experience with L&R locks come from locks that were made after 2000. I have them working better now, but I have almost double the price in them to get them that way. The only reason I have 4 of them now is because Chambers does not make a pair of locks that would be correct for a SxS. It is a terrible shame that this topic keeps coming up and that L&R does not correct the fairly minor, but serious problems that affect the function of their locks. At the manufacturing level,the problem could be addressed and fewer customers would have issues with what I hear was a good lock at one time. Nothing is worse on a flinter, than a flint eating, non-sparking lock.

 

[rich pierce]

I used a lot of them in the 1970's and 1980s and there was no other manufacturer offering the styles they offered. Every one was able to be tuned to work almost flawlessly. Not out of the box, but almost nothing from that period worked perfectly out of the box.

If your lock is shattering flints, you need tougher flints.

 

I have used L&R locks also with no problems--I had the Queen Anne [traded the gun, but not because of the lock, which worked very well]and now have the Bailes and the Trade lock--both work fine, no complaints. For comparison, I also have several locks by Chambers, one Hamm and two Cochrans. All work fine.

 

[wstrayer]

Maybe I goofed! I just ordered a T/C replacement on Friday. In my case I bought a flintlock barrel for my Renegade so I need a lock for it. I believe that my first step will be to polish all of the parts. We'll have to see.

 

[brain]

well, i layed into the main spring with a file. the early results are good. english flints would either shatter or break teh front half off with in 2 strikes. the clear saw cut flints did'nt fair any better, usually with in 4 strikes they would shatter.

since the filing, i've snapped it maybe 20-30 times on the same english flint, and it only now is beginning to show the need for a knapping.

i'm going to loosen up the frizzen spring abit, then call it good.


to answer a few "questions"
this lock was bought before i had the net, atleast 8 years ago.

some people like to tinker with stuff, i'm one of them. i preffer things that require some "assembly", it just makes it alittle more mine. anybody can buy something, but not everybody can fix something.

i would like to thank paulvallandigham
:hatsoff:
he hooked me up with a very in depth write up.

 

[FPDoc]

I'd sure like to read that "in depth write-up" if it's available.

 

[Donny]

Let's see:
..from reading comments on several ML forums:
Lock company No.1; everyone raves about the product, no complaints, each lock sparks great right out of the box.
Lock company No. 2; 1/2 the folks are in love with the lock, 1/2 hate them. Oh, I mean they will work after a $$$. tuneup by a pro.
this is my personal experience also....
If you had never bought a flintlock, which company would you order from?

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

My first flint was built with the Bailes lock and no complaints, I see no problems with that lock anyhow.

There is alot of bias towards Chambers locks and kits, just the way of it I 'spose.

All you guys that have those junky L&R locks can send them to me if'n theys to much trouble forn ya. :blah:

 

[vikingsword]

Don't really want to beat an already dying horse(subject), but this seemed like a good time to bring forth a dilema I'm having as well.To start, I've only built one rifle so far and that was from a kit many years ago and I now find myself hopelessly diseased by the flintlock bug, and am starting a new build, from scratch, mind you and have already aquired the stock and barrel(bill moody,62cal,40inch). The rifle to be is a fullstock Hawken, and I'm having a devil of a time deciding on the most appropriate lock for this rifle. I've done a hell of a lot of back research, through three different sights(no offense to this one) and there seems to be a BIG consensous concerning the reliability of L&R locks.Granted, there are also alot of L&R fans out there that have had little or no troubles, but there are almost no disappointed users of either Davis or Chambers/siler locks. My dilema comes from the fact that it seems that neither one of these two high end lock makers produces what can be considered a close to original replica of a lock suitable for an early fullstock Hawken( now I know my choice of caliber is questionable for this rifles time frame, but I have good reason for it). Alas, I know my continuing education into our eary American history is about to be blessed, but I really could use some help here, and I welcome all input. Oh, by the way, this rifle is going to be used by me for next years Kodiak brown bear hunt, these animals can reach 12ft squared and can weigh up to 15 hundred pds, so, my lock needs to be Very reliable, and waterproof, since we get an enormous amount of rain every year. Thanks for listening, and for any and all input you guys bring. vikingsword

 

[rich pierce]

OK, you've hit a debatable topic. There is a lot of debate on the historical accuracy of flintlock Hawken rifles and their use in the West. Undoubtedly there were a few, but they were nothing compared to trade guns from the period. I am pretty sure that few to no original flintlock Hawken examples exist that are believed by the majority of Hawken students to date to the early Hawken years. There is the "Smithsonian" Hawken believed to be a much later gun.

A Late Ketland lock by Chambers could be modified (round the tail) to work for what most people feel is a good impression of a flintlock Hawken. Round the rear of the lockplate. Chambers has a reputation that is well earned by the products AND the customer service. Customer service means people had problems with their Chambers locks, that needed to be attended to. It happens.

You can break the mainspring on a Davis jaeger flintlock by looking at it cross-eyed. It has a roaring bad design and does all the bending in the last third of the working arm. Every manufacturer also falls victim to the casting outfit, when somebody messes up and pours the wrong alloy, and has problems finding assemblers who do great work at affordable prices.

Despite what I have said about flintlock Hawkens, in the late 1970's and early 1980's, everybody had to have one so I built one in 1982 for a fella using the L&R Late English lock Model 900DT with the double throat cock and it was a hum-dinger.

What I find about locks is this: People buy a flintlock from Joe Blow Muzzleloading Supply Company, then sometimes it does not spark well for them or has some other problem. They immediately come to the forum instead of the supplier. They get advice and start to tinker. They make it worse or fix it. If they make it worse, the supplier or company does not want to back a lock the customer may have messed up. Either way the customer is unhappy because they either had to tinker, or got no satisfaction.

Instead, if you want one, buy a L&R lock directly from L&R lock company. If it does not work (maybe 1 in 40 locks is not properly timed, or has a problem) call them up and say you are sending it back and you want to receive one they have tested with a flint. 1 week later you have it and are happy for the next 40 years.