Lack of younger shooters?

[DixieTexian]

I wouldn't assign too much of the reason to politics or culture. Gun laws have become less and less restrictive and gun ownership has been increasing in recent years, especially in demographics that previously were underrepresented. Of course, nuzzleloaders are intimidating to new shooters who didn't grow up around guns, so it would take a while before many of them get interested in the hobby.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the decline in hunting in general. I would guess that the rise of factory farming and the subsequent lowering of the price of meat has been a big factor in this. It takes too much time for many people to go hunting and costs too much (especially if they have to lease hunting land) when meat is historically cheap. Couple that with how much busier people seem to be these days, and even if people want to get out and hunt they are probably going to be more likely to use a modern gun that they think is more of a sure thing because they haven't been exposed to muzzleloaders much. Adding fuel to this fire is the industry's move over the past few decades toward promoting magnum calibers and insisting that you need the latest and greatest most powerful cartridge to get a clean kill. So if most folks do consider using a muzzleloader, they are probably going to think they need a powerful inline instead of something more old school.

Also, muzzleloading isn't exactly cheap.

I actually think that the trend towards ARs as the basic all around rifle might eventually be a good thing, as more and more people are shooting calibers like .300 BLK that aren't magnums because they have to fit in an AR magwell. Once they realize that something like that is just fine for their hunting needs, they are probably more likely to consider a traditional muzzleloader if they decide to get a smoke pole to take advantage of muzzleloader season.

 

[SteveJM]

I wouldn't class myself as young being mid 30s but I've found it really difficult in England (UK) to find a range or club within reasonable distance who allow black powder shooting. It's making it very hard to get into. Perhaps it's just unlucky location wise, I kindly had some instruction and training but it was a quite a distance (too far to do at a regular intervals at least).
Whilst I'm really keen to progress my interest it doesn't seem easy. Perhaps this is partly why in some places it's not attracting new generations. SM

 

[Semper_Smokey]

Love this discussion and think there's a lot of good points about challenges in getting young shooters involved and some solutions. But I also wanted to add that a lot of this is generalizable to any new ML shooter and not just the young! As an "adult" (does this just mean having your own money to buy your own toys?), I have faced many of these same challenges breaking into the ML world.

There've also been a couple threads like this, so thought it might be worth taking a shot at summarizing these barriers to entry:

• Interest/Awareness: Definitely helps to have a background of entertainment around frontier life in the pop culture to spark interest. While I can think of a handful of recent productions that were set in the era (Turn, Frontier), there's nothing like the collective fascination that we had in the ~60s/70s (or so I'm told? Wasn't there...). I would push back on the scapegoating of cell phones or the current young generation. It's definitely true there's more competition for leisure activities - and digital ones are perhaps the biggest alternative. But that doesn't mean this generation is completely devoid of interest in the outdoors or craftsmanship or learning skills. I'm struggling to find good stats, but at least some sources show hunting somewhat stable (article) and both fishing and wildlife watching actually growing (article couldn't find the latest survey). It's also amusing to see a spate of new-age hipsters now interested in hunting (article mostly after reading Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma!). This generation is massively interested (probably more than my own) in 'making' things, giving rise to the whole "Maker Movement," where youngin's are craving niche or archaic skills more substantial than playing on their phones, turning to some old-school crafts like woodworking, forging, traditional archery, etc -- so long as you can take a selfie and post to Instagram, it's back!
• Startup costs: Particularly without any experience, the general kit you'll be sold to get started can feel pricey (compare this to $300 or less for a polymer pew pew stick + $50 in ammo and $10 range fee to start blazing away like Die Hard)
• Learning support: A lot have suggested the best way to get new shooters interested is through direct mentorship - have someone who knows what they're doing put a smokepole in the hands of someone new and let 'em go at it. I think that is currently the best option, but that's ALSO a problem. New gun owners and other shooting disciplines have seen growing participation. But again, if I want to learn to shoot a Plastic Fantastic, there's hours/days/weeks of Youtube channel material specifically targeting "Best gun for a beginner / total n00b" and "basic shooting skills for a complete beginner." Any good indoor range will offer new shooter classes. One can reasonably make the decision that they want to start shooting, and be on a range with a firearm, ammo, and some instruction within a couple of weeks, while interest is still running high. (Full disclaimer about whether this is a good idea or not...)
• Convenience: Beyond the startup cost, figuring out what you need and how to use it... with the majority of Americans (and most developed countries?) now living in urban/suburban areas, it can be bloody hard to find a place to make smoke. I intentionally moved out of big metros to a smaller city, but I still need to drive nearly an hour to get to an outdoor range. Again, compare this to any of the 3-4 indoor ranges for the plastic doohickeys, all within 15 min of me. Then think that nearly a seventh of all Americans live in the NYC, LA, or Chicago metro areas. Not only urban but also not exactly gun-friendly!

I'm not nearly experienced enough to take on all the above and figure out the best path forward for the sport as a whole - but hope framing it like this helps clarify the challenges to young AND new shooters.

For me personally, the biggest hurdle was getting up the nerve (and money) to go buy into a hobby out of the ordinary, take it to a range way out of the way, and hope I wasn't going to blow my face off the first time I shot it! (and probably only thanks to this forum it did go well!) After that, I think figuring out an easier way to get in more trigger time is what will keep me in it the most - and get me to bring along friends or my little girl when she's older. But I already had a love of the outdoors begun as a wee little one tagging along to Scouting events growing up in rural East Texas. For others, we'll have to trigger the interest first, THEN help solve these more practical challenges.

 

[Mtman725]

You are so right we need new shooters young and old,for the future of all shooting sports.

 

[user 50061]

I wouldn't assign too much of the reason to politics or culture. Gun laws have become less and less restrictive and gun ownership has been increasing in recent years, especially in demographics that previously were underrepresented. Of course, nuzzleloaders are intimidating to new shooters who didn't grow up around guns, so it would take a while before many of them get interested in the hobby.

This cannot be stated too often.

Far too many people in here are blaming young people for "being too liberal", or "not liking guns".

Liberals own guns, believe it or not, "we" just don't like the culture around them, *particularly* when Old Fogeys talk **** and poke fun at them like we can see in this thread.

You have to.make people feel welcomed in order to bring them in, much less have them stick around.

This hobby, like any other really, has a habit of being really gatekeep-y

QUOTE="DixieTexian, post: 2058592, member: 8224"]
Also, muzzleloading isn't exactly cheap.[/QUOTE]

Damn straight. I can go to my local gun shop and buy a cheap shotgun and some shells for a couple hundred bucks.

I have to order muzzleloading stuff online, and that isnt cheap. I also have to know much more about a muzzleloader to get it to work properly, down to specific parts

Make the hobby more accessible, both materiel-wise and group-wise, and dont **** on the new blood who try to join, and *advertise* in a responsible manner, and you can get new people to join.

 

[Are. M.]

To echo many of y'alls responses, exposure is key. If we're concerned about the decline of muzzleloading because the "kids just aren't into it" then us older folks need to step up our game. If you're that worried about it, get in cahoots with a youth organizations and volunteer your time and knowledge. That is, of course, unless you "just aren't into it."

My dad had a muzzleloader, and I thought the name sounded cool, but it wasn't until I was 13y/o at a 4-H camp outside of Woodville, MS that I got to shoot, load, rinse and repeat. From then on I was hooked. I snuck away from the .22 range because listening to that NRA rifle instructor was lame and there was more noise and smoke to be made elsewhere. All it takes is a few shots and a little patience to gain a lifelong partisan.

As far as getting started as an older individual, get ahold of a local club or contact your local NMLRA representative. We're generally glad to share our knowledge and point you in a reliable direction, not to mention share powder and primers if you're running low.

RM

 

[granth]

Love this discussion and think there's a lot of good points about challenges in getting young shooters involved and some solutions. But I also wanted to add that a lot of this is generalizable to any new ML shooter and not just the young! As an "adult" (does this just mean having your own money to buy your own toys?), I have faced many of these same challenges breaking into the ML world.

There've also been a couple threads like this, so thought it might be worth taking a shot at summarizing these barriers to entry:

• Interest/Awareness: Definitely helps to have a background of entertainment around frontier life in the pop culture to spark interest. While I can think of a handful of recent productions that were set in the era (Turn, Frontier), there's nothing like the collective fascination that we had in the ~60s/70s (or so I'm told? Wasn't there...). I would push back on the scapegoating of cell phones or the current young generation. It's definitely true there's more competition for leisure activities - and digital ones are perhaps the biggest alternative. But that doesn't mean this generation is completely devoid of interest in the outdoors or craftsmanship or learning skills. I'm struggling to find good stats, but at least some sources show hunting somewhat stable (article) and both fishing and wildlife watching actually growing (article couldn't find the latest survey). It's also amusing to see a spate of new-age hipsters now interested in hunting (article mostly after reading Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma!). This generation is massively interested (probably more than my own) in 'making' things, giving rise to the whole "Maker Movement," where youngin's are craving niche or archaic skills more substantial than playing on their phones, turning to some old-school crafts like woodworking, forging, traditional archery, etc -- so long as you can take a selfie and post to Instagram, it's back!
• Startup costs: Particularly without any experience, the general kit you'll be sold to get started can feel pricey (compare this to $300 or less for a polymer pew pew stick + $50 in ammo and $10 range fee to start blazing away like Die Hard)
• Learning support: A lot have suggested the best way to get new shooters interested is through direct mentorship - have someone who knows what they're doing put a smokepole in the hands of someone new and let 'em go at it. I think that is currently the best option, but that's ALSO a problem. New gun owners and other shooting disciplines have seen growing participation. But again, if I want to learn to shoot a Plastic Fantastic, there's hours/days/weeks of Youtube channel material specifically targeting "Best gun for a beginner / total n00b" and "basic shooting skills for a complete beginner." Any good indoor range will offer new shooter classes. One can reasonably make the decision that they want to start shooting, and be on a range with a firearm, ammo, and some instruction within a couple of weeks, while interest is still running high. (Full disclaimer about whether this is a good idea or not...)
• Convenience: Beyond the startup cost, figuring out what you need and how to use it... with the majority of Americans (and most developed countries?) now living in urban/suburban areas, it can be bloody hard to find a place to make smoke. I intentionally moved out of big metros to a smaller city, but I still need to drive nearly an hour to get to an outdoor range. Again, compare this to any of the 3-4 indoor ranges for the plastic doohickeys, all within 15 min of me. Then think that nearly a seventh of all Americans live in the NYC, LA, or Chicago metro areas. Not only urban but also not exactly gun-friendly!

I'm not nearly experienced enough to take on all the above and figure out the best path forward for the sport as a whole - but hope framing it like this helps clarify the challenges to young AND new shooters.

For me personally, the biggest hurdle was getting up the nerve (and money) to go buy into a hobby out of the ordinary, take it to a range way out of the way, and hope I wasn't going to blow my face off the first time I shot it! (and probably only thanks to this forum it did go well!) After that, I think figuring out an easier way to get in more trigger time is what will keep me in it the most - and get me to bring along friends or my little girl when she's older. But I already had a love of the outdoors begun as a wee little one tagging along to Scouting events growing up in rural East Texas. For others, we'll have to trigger the interest first, THEN help solve these more practical challenges.

This is definitely one of the most comprehensive posts I've read on this issue (at least in this thread lol). I've done some asking around at my school, and many of my buddies say that they've never even heard of black powder shooting. I think the lack of exposure is the biggest issue here. The only reason I even know muzzleloading is a thing is because I have a keen interest in history.

 

[Semper_Smokey]

This is definitely one of the most comprehensive posts I've read on this issue (at least in this thread lol). I've done some asking around at my school, and many of my buddies say that they've never even heard of black powder shooting. I think the lack of exposure is the biggest issue here. The only reason I even know muzzleloading is a thing is because I have a keen interest in history.

If you have the ability, great if you could take one out with you! My first glimpse of BP was a missed opportunity. Guy was trying - brought a ML to a Scout camp, showed us how it worked. But only had one, and 300 of us got in line to give it a shot . And I now suspect he was trying to hurry and avoid too much swabbing, b/c he ended up with a ball stuck halfway down the barrel and most of us never got to shoot.

But the real issue was - we were there, psyched about this cool new thing, and there wasn't any follow through. None of our scout masters had knowledge or connections, no outside community around us (that we knew of), and it seemed so foreign never even thought of asking if I could get my own.

 

[Doc]

I'd like to teach my kids to shoot black powder. At what age is appropriate to start and would you drop the powder charge to lessen any recoil?

 

[Doc]

In my earlyer post on Peewee Long Gongs I’ve had them start as early as 3 years old with a load of 10gr of BP, I announce no one goes above 40gr. and ear protection a must. All can use cross sticks. The target is a 12inch thin hanging plate so a charge of 10 will swing it. At awards they pick off of my blanket in turn which I supply with help of the traders and individuals. I start at about 15 yards so they all get to hit at least once. The winners will usually get back to about 80+ yards. Started this in 1991 and now in 6 different Rhondys. 5 other Rhondys in our area have also started this on their own. In far northern Ca. and southern Or. we try and are successful in keeping youths involved. Let’s see if this can be duplicated in the rest of the USA. It does work, contains some work but very enjoyable.
Doc,

 

[idonthaveamusketyet:|]

I get it, I'm just worried that there won't be enough of my generation to keep up this amazing sport. I just wish more people my aged liked it as much as I do!

tell the others in this thread I'm under 18 and have a flintlock. best guns 10/10

 

[Deerslayer]

I just started a project for one of my graduate courses which involves instructional design. I'm planning on looking at issues in designing instruction in muzzle-loading education, so I just sent an e-mail to the extension services at my local university that sponsors and oversees the 4-H programs in my area. They already offer a muzzle-loading course for youngsters, so I have offered my services for what they're worth. I'm glad I may have found a community activity to which I will actually enjoy giving my time.

 

[cynthialee]

I only got into them because my dad was a Jerimiah Johnson fan and he had to have the guns in the movie.
That lead to a Wyatt Earp fixation that lasted about 10 years and he dressed sorta like a gunfighter, complete with guns. New Mexico was a bit of a wilder place back in the 70's.

How to get the young into it?
I think you can't.
It is a middle age gentleman's pursuit for the most part with outliers like myself here and there. I think you should instead ask...."how do I attract the soon to retire/retired gentleman of modest means to participate in my sport?" The style of shooting and comradery lends itself best to a relaxed mindset and a meticulous approach to things. These guns ain't for the rapid paced mind seeking instant gratification.

Sure take the grandkids on a shooting excursion, maybe take that one responsible kid in the lot hunting. But don't push it.

 

[Frontier's]

Lack of exposure, poor treatment toward new guys, by grouchy ol farts. This place, 10-12 years ago, drove off a lot of younger guys, simply by acting like snobs or making the new comers feel out of place.

I've seen the same treatment at rendezvous', but luckily, there were many others that brought comfort to the new guys and welcomed them in.

 

[Joemolf]

You went and did it again Ponderosa, now I have to agree with you, again.

Both my sons shoot, just not black powder stuff. I've tried to get both interested in hunting, without success. Too much effort with too little reward, at least in their eyes. I suspect that our current world full of gadgets and gizmos offers more instant gratification and stimulation that burning black powder.

Yeap you can lead a horse to water but not make him drink it.

 

[Coinneach]

Never saw but one old ML growing up, nobody owned one. My explanation to why there are no ML in our area would get me flamed.

Just say your piece mate, was John Wayne bothered about getting flamed at the Alamo ?

 

[Coinneach]

Yeap you can lead a horse to water but not make him drink it.

And a Foal and his Mummy are soon parted !
I'm a Horseman, just had to contribute the above.

 

[Rob Templer]

Dont worry, when i was a kid the old codgers in the club would worry there were no younger shooters coming through. Now i'm an old codger. and the other old codgers in my club are saying the same thing.
It's a cycle, you can take a young pre teenager to a shooting club and they may get into it but once they discover skirt and cars they will probably give it away until they are older. You can't force them to do it.
People come to shooting clubs when they are older and have the time and money....

 

[Coinneach]

Yep, everyone of us who's a Dad or Grandad should be getting our descendants involved, my son and daughter are in their 30's now and I started them both out when they were around 5 years old; they've both maintained their interests in Gun ever since then, now my daughter's 7 year old is getting the bug.

It behoves all of us to make ML's a generational thing.

 

[Coinneach]

I am 74 and have exposed my children to guns and hunting modern as well as black powder. My son killed 3 pigs and a couple of quail with my Navy Arms double 12 gauge at the age of 12. I have taken my grandchildren (7 of them, 3 boys, 4 girls) hunting and to the range. My oldest two, 22 and 20, both hunt and both shoot black powder with me when they are around. The 20 year old is currently serving in the Marine Corps so he is far away. My 22 year old grand daughter and one 22 year old grandson both moved away for work. However I still have 3 granddaughters and one grandson close by. They have shot with me and will most likely retain the knowledge about muzzleloaders throughout their lives. View attachment 136394View attachment 136395View attachment 136396View attachment 136397View attachment 136398

Well done Grandpa, you're taking the Duty statement seriously.