Lapping Barrels

[FallingCrows]

I'd like to lap my Deerstalker 50 ML barrel and sand the stock so a $1 will pass between the barrel and stock. But here's the problem..I don't have a clue how to start or finish, and the process in between.

I've read several forums about doing this, but still don't want to ruin a good looking and good shoot'n ML.

How did you start?
Did you make the commitment to do it to your new rifle or buy a junker?
Or is this something anyone can do and it will only make the rifle better?

Help
FallingCrows

 

[jimeckersley]

You may need to clarify first, You say it's good looking and good shooting. How well does it shoot? And, if it's already good looking, what's the reason for changing it?

 

[jtmattison]

I've read several forums about doing this, but still don't want to ruin a good looking and good shoot'n ML.

If it already shoots good why mess with it?
IMO floating the barrel won't do you any good since it is pinned to the stock with the wedge anyway.
I would only lap if it is cutting patches. And then just lap enough to stop the cutting and no more.
You will get other opinions but I'd leave it alone.
I have a deerstalker flintlock and it shoots great(as in a ragged 1 inch hole at 50 yards with patched roundball) and I haven't done a thing to it.

HD

 

Everybody please don't yell at me, but is this related to "ACCURACY" and I'm just not getting it?

 

[jtmattison]

Everybody please don't yell at me, but is this related to "ACCURACY" and I'm just not getting it?

This is now the Muzzleloading Accuracy Forum and I think a discussion on floating and lapping does apply to accuracy.
The process of doing so should go in the Builders Bench Forum but I think it's okay to start the discussion here.

HD

 

Everybody please don't yell at me, but is this related to "ACCURACY" and I'm just not getting it?

This is now the Muzzleloading Accuracy Forum and I think a discussion on floating and lapping does apply to accuracy.
The process of doing so should go in the Builders Bench Forum but I think it's okay to start the discussion here.

HD

Well, that's my point. He says - - -

But here's the problem..I don't have a clue how to start or finish, and the process in between.

Isn't this about the process? Where's the accuracy question?

Or do all things that could possibly effect accuracy, like patch, ball, powder, lock timing, etc. now go here?

I'm just asking for clarification.

 

[jimeckersley]

I'd like to lap my Deerstalker 50 ML barrel ...
Help
FallingCrows

OK, unless you're going to take your breech plug out, pour a lead slug, etc., go to one of the other topics in this Category: NECO lappin compound an me. Warning, be careful of hot bacon grease.

You'll see how to lap the bore if it just needs to be polished up a bit. This is often all it takes to make the barrel quit cutting and blowing batches. Often times your groups will be smaller right away. Or, you could fire a couple hundred rounds and acheive about the same results. One thing about the post, above, I've referred you to: be sure to use a rod guide for a muzzle protector to avoid damage to the bore.

 

[sparsons]

I posted on another forum that I had good results from sanding down the stock. It is a new Thompson Hawken I bought in Nov. I did this after sending it back to the factory due to poor shooting-very sporadic. It came back basically the very same sporadic shooting rifle I sent in. As I stated before my uncle told me about the sanding of the stock. It helped my Hawkens more than I ever thought. I shot about 35 to 40 shots and not one went off flying by itself. So far so good. Since doing this I have talked to various men who shoot ML and they agreed it was the thing to do. Scott Caine who works at Caines Outdoor here in WV. also agreed with the process. In my case the stock was hitting the barrel at one spot and not meeting the barrel at another. I simply evened out the gap to make it uniform from top to bottom. Sorry about the long answer.

 

[jimeckersley]

You're posting about sanding out the barrel channel to remove uneven distribution of pressure against the barrel. Your experience is a good idea to pass on. Others have had to remove quite a bit of wood and then glass bed the channel.

If you want to see if there's high spots you can use lamp black, candle black, etc on the barrel. Then put the barrel back in the stock to see if the black transferred to the wood. Brownells sells a product to aid in barrel inleting that is easier to use and more effective than candle smoke.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I'd like to lap my Deerstalker 50 ML barrel ...
Help
FallingCrows

OK, unless you're going to take your breech plug out, pour a lead slug, etc., go to one of the other topics in this Category: NECO lappin compound an me. Warning, be careful of hot bacon grease.

I lapped my new greenmtnbarrel with NECO lapping compound. It came out great !!. Be avised tho this was a new barrel with a slow twist I can't say what it will do for a T.C. barrel. If new I am sure it will help it.
:hatsoff:

 

[Zonie]

I can't disagree with Sparsons when he says removing some wood helped his rifles accuracy, but one thing to keep in mind with these Muzzleloading rifles.
The stock locates the barrel.
One cannot remove all of the supporting wood so a dollar will fit between the wood and the barrel without leaving the barrel loose in the stock.

IMO if the barrel is left loose in the stock, it will move around to different positions every time the gun is fired and this will lead to inaccuracy.
Using modern guns as a reference point, this would be the same as removing all of the wood which locates the guns breech, or put another way, it would be the same as leaving all of the stock screws loose. Clearly IMO, not the way to achieve accuracy.

Again, just my opinion but to my thinking, the ideal muzzleloader would locate and position the breech of the barrel without over a few thousanths of an inch clearance, and the wood 1/2 inch in front of, and behind the barrel wedge would just touch the barrel on both sides. The barrel wedge would be a snug fit which would hold the barrel firmly against the bottom of the barrel channel but would allow the barrel to expand or contract as temperatures change.
The remainder of the barrel channel could clear the barrel as described in the first post.

Although it doesn't seem to be supported with Sparsons comments, I personally doubt that releaving the stock will have much effect on the rifles accuracy. I say this because, unlike modern rifles with their whippy, skinny barrels which can easily be bent, most muzzleloading barrels have extremely thick, stiff barrels which can be used like a prybar without bending significiently. The exception to this may be the swamped barrels found on custom muzzleloaders.

 

[FallingCrows]

I have no intention on changing the look, but I have this "need" to tweak the accuracy just a little. I've already shot about 200+ rounds out of it, so I'm not sure if lapping is needed or I'm waste my time.
My groups, off the bench are 2" - 2.5" at 50 yards
Sometimes there's one that's outside of that.

With that said. Should I just use 800 or 1200 grit to remove some of the scratches and rough edges in the bore?

- FallingCrows

 

[jimeckersley]

If you do have scratches in the bore, it will take a long time to remove them with 800 or 1200 grit. I normally start with 240, then 320 and 400. You can put nearly a mirror finish on steel with 400 grit.

Mainly, you just need to remove sharp edges, circular boring tool marks and high spots. Just shooting the patched balls will do the rest.

 

[FallingCrows]

So start at 240, then go to 300, then finish with 400. right? And how many strokes per grit should I use?

After I'm done I should be able to shoot a fly off a horse's butt. Or better yet, a butt off a horse's fly.

Thanks for the advise
- FallingCrows

 

[gmww]

Maybe I missed it. How bad is your gun shooting? Is it a new barrel? I'd hate for you to do something to it if all it needs is a brake in.

:thumbsup:

 

[FallingCrows]

The rifle's four years old and still doesn't shoot the nices group possible. Of three shots one will always be a stray. I wait between shots, swipe the barrel after each shot, tried different loads and bullets, and still have a ok group. I want better.

- FallingCrows

 

[gmww]

Define stray? 3" at 100 yrds?

As far as lapping. I've used J-B bore compound from Brownells and have found it cleans up a barrel very well. It's not lapping but it brings it down to near bare metal. My accuracy has often improved using J-B.

I've found that I've had to spend litterally weeks on a rifle to get a bullet/powder combination that will hold 2-3" at 100 yrds. My routine usually goes something like this.

Basically I'll try one bullet type with different combinations of powder size and weight. Then I'll do the same with another powder size and weight combination. If that fails I start over with another bullet type or sometimes just the bullet weight causes fliers. I cast my conicals and sometimes get up to 4 grns. variance. I weigh them now and seperate them accordingly. Am I being @nal? Yep.

Good luck. :thumbsup:

 

[FallingCrows]

one will stray about 3" at 50 yards. I don't have access to a 100 yard range (yet )

Maybe I'll try the JB compound you used. See how that does. If it doesn't tighten my groups. Then I use the lapping compound.

Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how I do.
- FallingCrows

 

[Slamfire]

Do you know which of the three shots goes astray? Is it always the same one? Before you lap, you may have a barrel that was straightened at the factory and is unkinkin' when it gets warm.

 

[FallingCrows]

I know...I'm beating this issue to death

I took my ML out today. I didn't have my spotting scope with me, so I don't know what shot is going wild. I have 2 shots next to each other and one way out. What I mean by "way out". Like 2" - 3" from the other shots. I'll need to get back to the range to see what one.

I'm using a Spitfire No. 11 nipple and didn't have one misfire after a total of 15 shots. The original one I had to clean after 3 shots of I'd get misfires.

My RMC fiber optic sights worked out well too.