Late 17th-Early 19th Century Butcher or Scalping Knives AKA Trade Knives

[Artificer]

Folks, there are often questions on these “Trade Knives,” so I thought I would post a three part thread to aid forum members a bit on these knives. I want to write up front that most of the material in these posts is not my own and I don’t have any connection to any individual or business posted here.

I would be pleased if forum members chime in to add or correct information. I also want to give thanks to folks like Wick Ellerbe (LRB), Ben Hoffman from Hoffman reproductions and others who have and continue to educate all of us on this topic.

Part I : Info on the knives

Let’s begin with nomenclature so folks won’t get confused. The illustration below shows parts of the knife with their descriptions. Special emphasis should be placed on the area of the blade from the rear of the heel and going upwards to the handle. This is often referred to as “the rear of the heel” and is one of the key points that determine the manufacturing origin of the knives.



AN OVERVIEW OF THE ANATOMY OF A BUTCHER’S KNIFE

https://brennan-group.com/blogs/product/an-overview-of-the-anatomy-of-a-butchers-knife



Original Relic Knife Blades. Please notice the four blades at :39 in the following video. Of the four blades going from top to bottom; the top and third one down is English, the second from top and the fourth blade are French.





Ben Hoffman and more videos:

General info:





More info on especially British Knives and their use:





Good basic info on English and particularly French Trade Knives.




More detailed info on French knives:

https://cdn2.imagearchive.com/muzzl...7-French-Knives-in-North-America-Part-III.pdf

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Part II : Forging a Trade Knife

I know many/most of us don't have a forge and blacksmith gear to make a blade, but I think knowing more about it may interest folks. Special thanks to Ben Hoffman for these videos!


Hoffman Reproductions: forging a patch knife, Part 1





Hoffman Reproductions Presents: Forging a colonial patch knife: part 2





Hoffman Reproductions: Forging a patch knife, Part 3





Hoffman Reproductions: Forging a patch knife, part 4




Gus

 

[Artificer]

Part III : Making a Trade Knife when you can get or have a blade

Beginning about 15:29 in the following video, shows how to saw and open the blank handle for a tapered tang.





Unfortunately, most bare knife blades available are not correct for those wanting to do a DIY project on these knives. So for those who are just getting into the hobby or the time period and can’t spend the money for a truly accurate Trade Knife Replica, I think one can be made by modifying the two following blades and then adding handles.


Blade that can be worked for an English, upswept point knife.
https://knifemaking.com/products/green-river-half-tang-6-boner

Blade that can be worked into a drop or rounded point French knife.
https://knifemaking.com/products/boning-blade

General additional info:



4D or Four pound Finish Nails, 1 ½” long, are what Hoffman noted he uses for the handle pins for English style trade knives.



English blades commonly 1/16” to 3/32” in width. Decimal measurements so you can use now common vernier calipers - 1/16” is .0625” to 3/32” is .09375.” Note: 3/32” is the size steel that Ben Hoffman said he uses to make his English Style Knives.



French Blades commonly 3/32” to a bit thicker in width. Decimal measurements so you can use now common vernier calipers - 3/32” is .09375” to 7/64” is .109375”.



Note: This thickness is too thick, but added just for a reference: 1/8” is .125”



Gus

 

[Artificer]

Oops, forgot to add on the blade blanks I suggested above:

One would have to cut the tang to half tang and drill new pin holes, grind/file the rear of the heel to the correct shape for the knife and sand off or sand down the blade/s to remove the maker's marks - if one wanted to do that.

Dremel Cutting discs can be used to cut the tang to a more proper half tang shape and other grinding can be done with Dremel "grinding points" or rotary stones for those who don't have a grinder available. Then finishing can be done with a file and Emory Cloth (sandpaper for metal).

Oh, I would keep a bucket of water handy while grinding on the blades when they get too hot to hold in bare hands during grinding or machine sanding.

One could taper the thickness of the tang to make it even better by using files or belt sander after cutting it to a half tang. Personally, I wouldn't try tapering the width of the blade from the grip to the point, if the blade is not already like that.

Gus

 

[LongWalker]

Note: This thickness is too thick, but added just for a reference: ¼” is .125”

Um, 1/4"= .25"

 

[Artificer]

Um, 1/4"= .25"

Thanks. I knew I meant 1/8" = .125", but I mistyped it. Got it corrected above.

Gus

 

[LRB]

Oops, forgot to add on the blade blanks I suggested above:

One would have to cut the tang to half tang and drill new pin holes, grind/file the rear of the heel to the correct shape for the knife and sand off or sand down the blade/s to remove the maker's marks - if one wanted to do that.

Dremel Cutting discs can be used to cut the tang to a more proper half tang shape and other grinding can be done with Dremel "grinding points" or rotary stones for those who don't have a grinder available. Then finishing can be done with a file and Emory Cloth (sandpaper for metal).

Oh, I would keep a bucket of water handy while grinding on the blades when they get too hot to hold in bare hands during grinding or machine sanding.

One could taper the thickness of the tang to make it even better by using files or belt sander after cutting it to a half tang. Personally, I wouldn't try tapering the width of the blade from the grip to the point, if the blade is not already like that.

Gus

I made both English and French blades from 3/32" stock. Both were tapered in thickness, both tang and blade, which is easier to do before any heat treating. I chose 3/32" because that thickness seemed to be a close enough to average for either, though I have seen English blades at under 1/16", but they were also somewhat smaller blades. Yeah, a belt grinder or sander is useful. Thanks to Ken Hamiltons research we now know that some or many of the French boucheron knives were made with 2 piece slab grips on the short tang blades with a third rivet pin near the end of the grip to give it strength and closure. A few hundred were recovered in a northern river from an apparent freight canoe accident. Most English scalpers had a grip width that over hanged the tang on the underside, while Ken Hamilton said most French scalpers did not.