Late '70' early '80's barrel quality from Italian made Lyman rifles?

[Longrangehunter]

What was the barrel quality of the older Lyman Plains Rifle from Lyman that came from Italy? Were they accurate, did they clean up well, or were they patch rippers? The quality of the workmanship appears to be there.

 

[bubba.50]

The one I built from a kit in 1978 was awesome in every respect except for the flimsy adjustable buckhorn sight that came with it. But it also had the fixed semi-buckhorn included with it so, that was no problem. And far as patches, could'a probably re-used them.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Almost all new barrels are patch rippers. The corners of the lands can be quite sharp. It only takes about 200 to 300 shots to sort that out. If you are looking at an older used Lyman, the lands should be pretty smooth.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I built three GPR kits in the late 80s and the bores were not very good compared to Green Mountain barrels. One was very nasty and was returned for replacement. The one they sent back was just OK and all of them I lead lapped before building the kits.

 

[Longrangehunter]

Almost all new barrels are patch rippers. The corners of the lands can be quite sharp. It only takes about 200 to 300 shots to sort that out. If you are looking at an older used Lyman, the lands should be pretty smooth.

I figured that. Thanks for the reply!

It say's "1979 Lyman Products" on the box. Not sure if that's changed every year or not, but it is an older rifle.

 

[Longrangehunter]

I built three GPR kits in the late 80s and the bores were not very good compared to Green Mountain barrels. One was very nasty and was returned for replacement. The one they sent back was just OK and all of them I lead lapped before building the kits.

I figured if it feels grippy running a patch down it I'll run JB Bore Paste down it with Kroil, or maybe 3M Scotch Brite pads? Not even sure if that would work or not?

I know a few very good gunsmiths that do use a Scotch pad after chambering a barrel so maybe it would work?

Most of my CFR have custom hand lapped barrels I compete with. 600-900 grit lapping compound on a rod with lead would be the way to go.... but I'm sure I'll go to that extreme.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Yes, a Scotch Brite patch or the use of JB bore paste will take the edge off the sharp corners.

 

[ohio ramrod]

All most all of the new barrels I have gotten needed some "polishing" before useing. I save the lapping for restoring abused barrels.

 

[ElkStalker]

My early 90’s GPR was a patch ripper and shot terribly. 3m scotch bright, about 60 passes in the bore, switching every 10 or so.. this did the trick. Shoots very very well now, patched balls feed like butter, and patches are in good shape after shooting.

 

[SDSmlf]

What was the barrel quality of the older Lyman Plains Rifle from Lyman that came from Italy? Were they accurate, did they clean up well, or were they patch rippers? The quality of the workmanship appears to be there.

I have owned a few, and most could be made to shoot accurately with some elbow grease. ‘Rough’ bores and crowns are easily corrected. The one irritating problem was the off center bore (which current manufacturing process appears to have corrected) when it occurred in the left to right orientation of the factory barrels. It seemed like they could shoot around corners, but when shooting around a corner wasn’t required, you almost couldn’t adjust the sights enough for windage while keeping the sights in the barrel dovetails. Don’t believe it was that common, but owned two and saw maybe half a dozen total.

If the bore appears centered and the borescope showed a clean bore I wouldn’t hesitate buying one at the right price.

 

[bubba.50]

Lookin’ at all these replies, I musta really lucked out with the one I had. But then again, lookin’ back, I mighta shot up a few boxes of maxi-balls before I ever got around to tryin’ roundballs in it.

 

[Longrangehunter]

I usually see a barrel speed up in the first 100 rounds or so in a CFR before I get too serious about load development. A barrel is a barrel, so I'd only assume the same in a black powder gun as well.

I thought I'd try Swiss 1,5Fg in the .54. since I can get some. The Granulations fall within 2Fg, just not the smaller fines. I read most of you guys like to use FFFg, and what I used in the '80's and '90's. So why now do the powder makers say 3Fg for .45 and smaller and 2Fg for .50 and larger when I used to use 3Fg in my .50 cal.?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Longrangehunter]

Here's the rifle I've been asking about.... New to me, but in mint condition especially for an older rifle.

 

[ElkStalker]

I usually see a barrel speed up in the first 100 rounds or so in a CFR before I get too serious about load development. A barrel is a barrel, so I'd only assume the same in a black powder gun as well.

I thought I'd try Swiss 1,5Fg in the .54. since I can get some. The Granulations fall within 2Fg, just not the smaller fines. I read most of you guys like to use FFFg, and what I used in the '80's and '90's. So why now do the powder makers say 3Fg for .45 and smaller and 2Fg for .50 and larger when I used to use 3Fg in my .50 cal.?

Thanks in advance.

I short 3f in my 3 50’s. They are more accurate with this granulation. Now, that is with patched round ball. 80gr of 3f with connicals gives me pressure spikes, so 2F is more suitable and can be driven with a heavier charge / faster velocities.

 

[ElkStalker]

For what it’s worth, My Lyman GPR likes 90 grains of Goex or Scheutzen 3f with a PRB

 

[Longrangehunter]

The guys at Buffalo Arms weren't real keen on using Swiss 1.5Fg in my muzzleloaders? I have a .50 and the .54 above coming to me. Both are very slow twist barrels that I will only be pushing round balls out of.

I have Scheutzen 2Fg, and 3Fg. If I could get Swiss in another size I probably wouldn't bother with testing the 1.5Fg.

Looking at it though unless it causes hang fires which some have found the size appears to look Ok? That said I suppose anything you use will go "Bang", but is it accurate? I have Musket, and the #11 Nipples which I thought with the hotter Musket caps the 1.5 would ignite, it was a question of whether or not it would have lower ES/SD vs 2Fg or 3Fg.

Type   Granulation   Use
1Fg   1.2-1.6 mm   Cannons, shotguns and muskets
1.5Fg .85-1.2 mm   45 Caliber rifles and bigger
2Fg   .65-1,2 mm   45 Caliber rifles and bigger
3Fg   .50-.8mm    45 caliber rifles and smaller, pistols
4Fg   .19-.23 mm   Flintlock priming powder only

I was going to head to Buffalo Arms today and just wondered what you all thought? Waste of $30 even test the Swiss 1.5?

 

[dave951]

Type   Granulation   Use
1Fg   1.2-1.6 mm   Cannons, shotguns and muskets
1.5Fg .85-1.2 mm   45 Caliber rifles and bigger
2Fg   .65-1,2 mm   45 Caliber rifles and bigger
3Fg   .50-.8mm    45 caliber rifles and smaller, pistols
4Fg   .19-.23 mm   Flintlock priming powder only

This is a guideline ONLY. You can use 3f in larger rifles and handguns. I shoot 3f in my 69cal smoothbore. That said, you must cut the charge levels about 10%. The benefit is using less powder and often less fouling with the same level of accuracy or better.

Now as for "patch rippers", I wouldn't get too hung up on this for a knock around or hunting gun. A bore that shreds a patch can still be a great shooter if you take time to do some load development. I have one rifle that leaves patches looking like dirty lint, but darn if it doesn't shoot pretty well.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I usually see a barrel speed up in the first 100 rounds or so in a CFR before I get too serious about load development. A barrel is a barrel, so I'd only assume the same in a black powder gun as well.

I thought I'd try Swiss 1,5Fg in the .54. since I can get some. The Granulations fall within 2Fg, just not the smaller fines. I read most of you guys like to use FFFg, and what I used in the '80's and '90's. So why now do the powder makers say 3Fg for .45 and smaller and 2Fg for .50 and larger when I used to use 3Fg in my .50 cal.?

Thanks in advance.

Powder granulation is one of these areas where we are trying to make all powders of a specific granulation equal in releasing energy. Different brands can have different performance based on the quality of the potassium nitrate and the quality of the carbon extracted from a specific species of wood. For what it is worth, the switch from 3f to 2f has been around since Lyman published their first black powder manual.

 

[t_carlyle]

Were you the one bidding against me for this last night?

 

[Longrangehunter]

Powder granulation is one of these areas where we are trying to make all powders of a specific granulation equal in releasing energy. Different brands can have different performance based on the quality of the potassium nitrate and the quality of the carbon extracted from a specific species of wood. For what it is worth, the switch from 3f to 2f has been around since Lyman published their first black powder manual.

Thanks, I saw that....