Lead balls or substitue?

[Poor Private]

Now that parts of California have placed a total ban on using lead in weapons, what is our substitute? I can see that shortly the rest of Cali and the country will follow suit and I just want to be prepared.

 

[Rebel]

Personally i will still use lead if it happens here. I think it is a STUPID BS law. Lead comes out of the ground to begin with. Lead has been around forever in the ground. How is lead from bullets getting into the ground any worse than the natural lead that is there. It is time people start standing up for their RIGHTS and quit taking all these BS laws sitting down. Our Government is completely out of control.

 

[silverfox]

:hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:
fox

 

[Bountyhunter]

For the time being it is the Socialist Republic of Kalifornia that is out of control, but it is soon to bleed out onto the rest of us if we do not stand up for our rights.

Lead balls, dang right!, I'm with you. It aint about the danged birds, it is about control.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Now that parts of California have placed a total ban on using lead in weapons, what is our substitute?

As I understand it the ban only applies to hunting. Arizona has a similar ban.

I agree we shouldn't take it sitting down. I was in contact with the DFG when they were considering it. Also I wrote and called the State Legislature when they decided to act on it.

Now that its a done-deal we need to keep up the pressure and chastise the lawmakers that voted for it. Also thank the ones who opposed it. Iffin you live in a state without the ban, do some research and inform your representatives BEFORE they act on it. GW

 

[roundball]

But instead of hijacking the thread and getting back to the poster's question, which is a great one...one place we can probably start looking is at the evolution of the non-toxic shot replacements that were required for waterfowl hunting.

Steel was the first non-toxic to be approved...adjustmenst had to be made as it is so much less dense...then other alloys have come out like Bismuth, Hevi-Shot, and the Tungstens...but while those alternatives are better performers than steel, their cost would be prohibitive, at least to me...maybe brass or copper balls would be possibilities.

And just for paper punching, something completely separate and inexpensive may have to be divised, then rezero with the expensive balls for hunting, etc.

But my first guess is that we'd be looking at a steel ball like those used in ball[url] bearings..in[/url] fact, it would be interesting to find a manufacturer who might already make one of a diameter that would work in one of the commonly used calibers to experiment.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Once they get a foot hold they'll expand the ban to the entire state. Since most modern ammo contains lead they will also be outlawed. No more hunting, no more matches, no more recreational shooting.... Since they could not ban the guns, they will ban their use. Glad I left the Republik of Kalifornia.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Just my opinion. But conventionally patched metal balls encapsulated in a tough plastic jacket (to help grip rifling) would be an alternative.

Far out, yep, and so is the bloody lead ban.

They have resurrected the condor (naught but a glorified buzzard relic) and now will use them to restrict sport hunters. Every time they introduce a species, or declare them endangered, they then use them like a club to beat the hell out of us.

 

[roundball]

Once they get a foot hold they'll expand the ban to the entire state. Since most modern ammo contains lead they will also be outlawed. No more hunting, no more matches, no more recreational shooting.... Since they could not ban the guns, they will ban their use. Glad I left the Republik of Kalifornia.

CP, it's already beyond just California...other states are already starting down that same slippery slope...NY just announced that they've banned the use of lead bullets for their law enforcement training and practice...and once the slide down that slippery slope begins, it just gathers speed...gets easier and easier for other uses to be banned as well.

Heck, if it's not a case of lead being banned outright, the soaring cost of it alone are having an impact...I have completly stopped trap and skeet shooting with modern shotguns...can't (won't) afford $45-$60 for a bag of #9 shot to just burn it up.

 

[jtmattison]

But my first guess is that we'd be looking at a steel ball like those used in ball[url] bearings..in[/url] fact, it would be interesting to find a manufacturer who might already make one of a diameter that would work in one of the commonly used calibers to experiment.

I have a steel ball bearing that is .500. I use it to test softness of lead samples.
I might patch it with denim and shoot it out of my .54 to see how it works.
Ricochet is a big concern to consider with hard projectiles.

HD

 

[Sherlock]

While the ban is not a good thing, before anyone gets in a knot, they should search out the kali Fish & game site and look at the regs. It's a large condor area that is affected. and Yes, I too believe it's the greenies who have kidnapped the citizens. It's cheaper to raise condors in in a roped off canyon. But you know F & G people make a LOT of money working on things like this and its sponsors are not hunting and shooting types, thus suffering no loss. You going to vote next time where you live, right?. Wonky

 

[410-er]

Steel shot in warerfouling STINKS! :barf: Don't know how a steel ball would do on a deer but in waterfoul on the body shots the pellets are just under the skin.Copper would be TERRIBLE expensive.Brass?Marbles!How about MARBLES! :rotf:

 

[roundball]

Steel shot in warerfouling STINKS! :barf: Don't know how a steel ball would do on a deer but in waterfoul on the body shots the pellets are just under the skin.Copper would be TERRIBLE expensive.Brass?Marbles!How about MARBLES! :rotf:

Everybody already knows that:

Steel was the first non-toxic to be approved...adjustments had to be made as it is so much less dense...then other alloys have come out like Bismuth, Hevi-Shot, and the Tungstens...but while those alternatives are better performers than steel, their cost would be prohibitive, at least to me...maybe brass or copper balls would be possibilities. And just for paper punching, something completely separate and inexpensive may have to be divised, then rezero with the expensive balls for hunting, etc.

We're just playing the "what if" game, brainstorming to start thinking of possible alternatives.
And yes, they'll probably all be expensive, because YOU don't get to approve what might be allowed as a substitute for lead...the government will do that all by itself...if you have anything positive to contribute to the brainstorming I'm sure it would be welcomed...

 

[roundball]

I have a steel ball bearing that is .500. I use it to test softness of lead samples.
I might patch it with denim and shoot it out of my .54 to see how it works.
Ricochet is a big concern to consider with hard projectiles.

I'd think steel balls would shoot fine as far as shooting / accuracy goes...even the terminal performance on game can be taken care of by moving up to some larger caliber ball to keep the weight up, and to make a larger wound channel as expansion will no longer be the case....cost and availability will be the issues...and if this should come to pass over the next several years, I'd bet lunch that some sort of low cost practice ball will surface for targets and plinking vs. hunting...

 

[bpbrs]

Lead bans are just not for bullets, plumbing,toys,paints,appliances,puters, and much of the manufacturing that requires lead to attach parts together.

I've toyed with the idea of mixing bismuth with lead to cut down on the lead.

My gun club which included me, did a big study on lead mobility. Lead is not a danger till it breaks down into its simplest element.

 

[Coot]

No need to reinvent the wheel. The US military has already done the research and successfully field tested a lead substitute with better ballistics than lead. We can go to depleted uranium round balls! :wink:

 

[guncobbler]

Now what is the melting point of depleted uranium and what do we flux it with? How about squeezing tungsten powder/epoxy mix into a mold? Maybe we can go to shooting short arrows out of our MLs like the tank gun rounds. Keep the ideas rolling, GC

 

[Poor Private]

Lexan plastic I think since it is bullet and shatter proof. Nice little clear balls that you can have your intials, or your trademark put in them or even that tiny GPS pill so we can track our quarry when they get away. instead of following blood trails.

 

[roundball]

410-er joked about marbles but when we looked at marbles before remember there are a few that could work with some adjustnments...one common marble size is 9/16" which is .5625" diameter, and since its pretty common to use a .570 ball + .018" patch in a .58cal, a .5625 marble might work fine with a .022" -.024" patch...a possible example of an option for plinking targets if things really got bad to the point where lead use was banned. (and .375s in a .40cal, .500s in a .54cal)

 

[paulvallandigham]

Don't worry, guys. The mountain Lions they are protecting are already starting to eat the bunny huggers. Nature will take care of the problem in California, one way or another :rotf: