Lead instead of Leather in Hammer Jaws

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red grizzly

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Have seen lead instead of leather in the hammer jaws holding flint. What is the purpose of this?
 
Leather will expand back pretty close to its original thickness during use. Lead, once it's squished down on the flint, won't do so. After shooting for a while the flint will get loose because the lead won't expand back like leather will.

That's the best I can explain it, I hope that makes sense. I believe I read that the British army provided lead with their flints but only expected a soldier to get a dozen shots per rock. It didn't matter if the flint was getting loose in the jaws by the time it had to be replaced.
 
Yes - lead is non-elastic, meaning it just squishes down and won't spring back, so the flint comes loose. Leather has elasticity and springs back enough to keep things tight. But you don't want to use leather that's too thick, because then the flint won't be held very firmly (i.e., it's too squishy). I use suede leather that's about 1/16th" thick bought from a local craft store (Michael's). It works very well.
 
Thank you for the replies. I see that the forum has displayed for me this subject that has been posted about in the past. Some good reading.
 
Have seen lead instead of leather in the hammer jaws holding flint. What is the purpose of this?
Ah, to hold the flint, it's soft and molds to the flint much like leather, most prefer leather. But if your shooting and don't have leather you can flatten a ball and use the lead.
 
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Have seen lead instead of leather in the hammer jaws holding flint. What is the purpose of this?

You should only see lead in a musket lock. Although the "throw" of a musket lock is pretty large, the distance from the edge of the flint at full cock to the surface of the closed frizzen, the locks can be rather slow. Further, military muskets are combat weapons, so the added inertia helps a steadily dulling edge of the flint to generate sparks as the battle continues.

Rifle locks are fast, and a proper piece of leather has an opening in the bend in the leather, to allow the back of the flint to rest against the jaw screw. This is one of the reason why folks sometimes have problems with leather wrapped flints, as if you don't open the leather so that the back of the flint rests on the jaw screw, the leather absorbs some of the impact reducing the ability of the leather wrapped flint in the lock to generate sparks.

LD
 
Have seen lead instead of leather in the hammer jaws holding flint. What is the purpose of this?
Same as leather: to simply hold flint firmly in place. I used lead for ten years re-enacting with a Rev War regiment and a Japanese Bess and had good results. I think it's a personal choice, there are pros & cons for either. I beat lead thin with a hammer and clipped it to size with snips; the little "teeth" on the jaws of the hammer (or cock) held the lead sheet firmly.
 
Ah, to hold the flint, it's soft and molds to the flint much like leather, most prefer leather. But if your shooting and don't have leather you can flatten a ball and use the lead.
Over MANY years of black powder, I've used old shoe tongue leather, flattened soft lead balls and other "grippers" as needed. The strangest was the rubber-like anti-skid mesh we use under a throw rug. ALL WORK when the flint is properly placed and the jaw is tightened down firmly on the flint. Yes, everybody has their own favorite and their own opinion, just like their choice of patch material and patch lubricant, but a good gun is VERY tolerant ..... now it's time for y'all to tell this old codger why I've been so wrong in my shooting for 60+ years.
 
I've used lead for a long time. I think those who say to not use it haven't tried it. Both leather and lead need to be retightened after a shot or two. I've always thought that lead helps with more spark. Bill
I have used both, IMHO the lead wrapped flint created more damage to the frizzen than the leather with no added benefit.

But then I do not have any cheap locks either so it may help with them.
 
Hi Guys,
I want to follow up on LD's excellent post. Lead wraps were certainly used by 18th century soldiers. It has 2 advantages over leather. First, it adds a little more weight at the end of the pendulum (flint cock) increasing the force with which the flint strikes the battery. Second, it does not absorb moisture and cause corrosion on the flint cock jaws. However, there is a serious downside particularly for 18th century military reenactors. Over the past 10 years, my shop has repaired scores of Pedersoli and Miroku muskets and even some India-made ones. One of the common problems, particularly for the Brown Besses is the flint cock has become loose on the tumbler post. The vast majority (but not all) of those with that condition had lead wraps around the flints. It is well documented that some British officers encouraged soldiers to use lead wraps for reasons already described although leather was widely used as well. Original Brown Bess muskets handled them well and therein lies the rub. Reenactors with Pedersolis, Mirokus, and India-made guns are not shooting real Brown Besses, and the locks are not made as well as the originals. On an original Bess lock with a long sear spring, the back of the tumbler hits the head of the sear spring screw at the same moment the hooked flange on the tumbler hits the back of the bridal, at the same moment the shoulder of the flint cock comes to rest on the bolster of the lock plate. Moreover, the flint cock and lock plate were case hardened and tempered in the same manner as the tumbler, bridle, and sear. Those 3 points of contact and the strike of the flint on the battery distribute the force of the fall of the flint cock. Those conditions don't apply to commercial repro locks and the flint cock, which is usually not hardened and tempered, takes the brunt of the force, which then leads to it loosening over time particularly if lead is used. On later pattern Besses with short sear springs, the tumbler does not hit the sear spring screw but it still has the flange hitting the bridle and all the components are hardened and tempered equally. Consequently, I discourage reenactors from using lead wraps. I also encourage them to use flints smaller that historic musket size because the battery faces on the repros are smaller than the originals.

dave
 
All good information and for me I use a thin leather wrap on my flints. If Jim Chambers places a caution on not using a lead wrap for flints in his locks, then that's good enough for me.
I've tried using a lead wrap on a flint once and found that after a few shots the flint became loose, and the jaw had to be tightened down until it got to the point that the flint was not being held any longer in the jaws of the cock. I never had that happen with a leather wrap.:thumb:;)
 
I've used lead for a long time. I think those who say to not use it haven't tried it. Both leather and lead need to be retightened after a shot or two. I've always thought that lead helps with more spark.
Wow! Wish someone had told me this earlier. My flint in leather has shot over 50 shots now and hasn’t loosened up. I must be doing something wrong.
 


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