Lead or Leather to hold the flint

[Griz44Mag]

The boys at Cabin Creek told me not to use lead. They know what they are doing so I only use leather

Who do you think sells more guns? (Pedersoli or Cabin Creek?)

Hint - Pedersoli packs lead strips already punched to hold a flint against the jaw screw.
Both factory new Pedersoli flintlocks I bought had one in the jaw and a spare in the box.
I have used both, and both work.

 

[SDSmlf]

Who do you think sells more guns? (Pedersoli or Cabin Creek?)

Hint - Pedersoli packs lead strips already punched to hold a flint against the jaw screw.
Both factory new Pedersoli flintlocks I bought had one in the jaw and a spare in the box.
I have used both, and both work.

How thick are the lead strips you received with your Pedersolis? The two factory new Pedersolis flintlocks I bought did not include any lead strips. That was over five years ago.

 

[MSW]

i would give both a try and see which works best in that particular rifle ... each gun has its own quirks ... unless it's a Chambers lock ... personally, i have never had a problem using leather flint wraps with a Chambers lock, so - if it's not broken, don't mess with it ...

bby the way, this is a question just about guaranteed to start a good bar fight ... friends don't let friends drive fords ...

 

[stank]

Who do you think sells more guns? (Pedersoli or Cabin Creek?)

Hint - Pedersoli packs lead strips already punched to hold a flint against the jaw screw.
Both factory new Pedersoli flintlocks I bought had one in the jaw and a spare in the box.
I have used both, and both work.

Cabin Creek tunes flintlocks. I have sent them locks that don’t function well and they tune it and return a lock that sparks like crazy. They know the ins and outs of a flintlock quite well and know the balance needed between the cock,frizzen and the springs. If they tell me no. It is no. I have 5 Pedersoli guns. Never got lead with any of them. In my opinion they all have fair to good locks on them. But none are great. Maybe I should send them to cabin creek to be tuned.

 

[Wolfpaak]

Thanks for all the replies! Will stick with leather as that's what I have been using, and it has worked so far.
I am going to keep it wrapped, I like the way it looks, WAYYYY different than everyone else.
What good is an empty weapon?
And, I drive a Ford...
Later,
Kenny

 

[Griz44Mag]

How thick are the lead strips you received with your Pedersolis? The two factory new Pedersolis flintlocks I bought did not include any lead strips. That was over five years ago.

Sorry - I did not measure them. I tossed them into the lead pot. I prefer to use leather primarily because it is easier to work.
I have tried both and both work equally as well, I just prefer to use leather. I have an old leather gun strap hanging on my work bench that is the right width so I just snip off a piece when I need to replace one.
As a note of reference - both new guns I bought that had strips in the box were less than 5 years ago. Interesting.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Cabin Creek tunes flintlocks. I have sent them locks that don’t function well and they tune it and return a lock that sparks like crazy. They know the ins and outs of a flintlock quite well and know the balance needed between the cock,frizzen and the springs. If they tell me no. It is no. I have 5 Pedersoli guns. Never got lead with any of them. In my opinion they all have fair to good locks on them. But none are great. Maybe I should send them to cabin creek to be tuned.

If you are not happy with your locks - then by all means you should make yourself happy by having them tuned. I have nothing against Cabin Creek and have bought from them several times. If you want to use leather then use leather. But apparently you think Cabin Creek needs to be defended. from ????. NOBODY said Cabin Creek gives bad advice. There is ALWAYS more than one way to skin a cat. There is no such thing as an absolute authority on ANY subject. Take a chill pill, nobody is raining on your parade.
Good lock tuners are apparently rare. I found a detailed description on how to tune a lock - and I did tune a Pedersoli flintlock on an older Dixie Delux Pennsylvania I bought from a member here on the forum. The gun was 35 years old and had a lot of usage but was in otherwise great shape. I replaced the liner, both lock and frizzen springs, polished the sear and tumbler and then used a hook scale gauge to measure the spring tensions then used the file method to adjust the springs to get the balance between the main and frizzen to recommended ratios. I wound up with a very dependable lock. And yes, I use leather for my flints, but by no means or tests or experiences is it wrong to use lead.

 

[rickystl]

I have used both successfully. But I prefer leather. Seems you have to check the top screw tightness more often with lead.

 

[toot]

what was used back in the day by the military. was it leather or lead?

 

[OhioHawkeye]

New guy here. I've had a flinter for a few years now and have used leather to hold the flint and have seen lead used. Which is a better option?
Thanks for your time.
Kenny

I have used both. Nice thing of lead, after a couple uses and it turns hard from the pressure, just recycle it back to the melting pot.
I prefer leather when it gets hard or just time to replace, I just discard it in the woods. It is biodegradable.

Lead sheet is very simple to pour. I made a little mold from a piece of roofing slate to make 3 at a time
I'm a leather crafter so always have scrap leather.

 

[Artificer]

OF the two, the best option is the flint holder that begins with the letter L

OK enough goofing on the subject, actually both work in different applications...

Actually I've done some testing, so it was a very small sample, but in addition to "holding" the flint, does one of the two types of holders give any other advantages?

What I found was two things. FIRST..., in reproduction, military musket locks, and only in those, LEAD was better. Although the locks whether Japanese made or Italian made or Indian made, have large "throws"..., meaning the distance from the edge of the flint at full cock to the face of the frizzen is large..., they are rather slow in flint impact velocity against that frizzen. So not only did the lead when properly wrapped, hold the flint very well, but it gave some added inertia to the strike of the flint against the frizzen. This is important to folks like reenactors who are firing lots of rounds in rapid succession, without much time to tend to the edge of that flint..., and presumably was important to soldiers in combat in the age of the Brown Bess and Charleville. This would seem to explain why armies of many nations would use the material found in bullets to wrap their flints, instead of the much less expensive scrap of leather that could've been found throughout the countryside.

SECOND..., Leather was much much better for a civilian lock, Especially a good quality rifle lock, with one important point for both lead and leather... the back of the flint needs to rest against the cock screw. I found that leather was much better in my rifle locks but only performed well when either a portion was cut away to allow the back of the flint to rest against the screw in the cock jaw that held the flint in place, OR if I punched two holes in the leather holder, to allow the jaw screw to pass through the holder with the back of the flint resting against the screw. I think that the leather has a slight cushioning effect in a fast moving rifle lock, and IF the leather is between the back of the flint and the jaw screw, the impact is reduced, and I've seen a flint slightly shift when encased in leather even when the jaws were very tight upon it. Lead in a rifle lock did not work well by far... a quicker edge dulling, and gripping of the flint was a also a problem...

The two methods of rifle flint leather patterns, these get folded around the back of the flint...,
View attachment 92621

The lock with the upper leather version being used. NOTE that IF the upper version is used, and for some reason the lock jaws loosen, and the flint drop off into the grass, the leather is still held in place, and all the shooter need do is replace the missing flint.

View attachment 92623

LD

Great Post, Dave,

As to using lead flint wraps in military locks, I wonder if there were some other things the military appreciated the lead for?

Up until around 1775 and when Britain wasn't at war with France every few years, Britain bought many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of flints from the French. This because the French knew how to knap the flints with more or less flat tops and bottoms or the shape we are used to seeing "English" Flints knapped today. Up until 1775 when British Flintknappers learned the French secret, they made "Gunspall" Flints that were sort of wedge shaped flints. In the following figure, both 1 and 2 were common types of Gunspall Flints. Number 4 was considered a 2nd or 3rd Quality French style Flint, while Number 3 was considered a 1st Quality Flint and the type we prefer still to this day.

Would flint wraps better hold the poorer quality Gunspall Flints the British Military was forced to use for most of the time up till around 1775? I don't know as I've never used a Gunspall Flint.

Another thing was how CHEAP the British Army was in so many ways, though in some things they might today be considered excellent at "re-cycling."

When British Sentries came off Night Watch they reported to the Artificer/Armorer to have the loads in their muskets pulled while they had Wooden Ramrods in their Muskets or after they were armed with Iron/Steel Rammers, they pulled the loads themselves. The deformed balls were saved and re-cast. The reclaimed powder was "refreshed." I've never found a reference on what was done with the cartridge paper, but it wouldn't surprise me they used it to shine buttons and/or start fires.

A lead flint wrap could easily be re-cast after it began to be worn out or cracked/broken in use. So it may have been actually cheaper than leather in the long run.

Gus

 

[Coinneach]

Someone asked me to give detail on the T shaped Lead wrap for a Gun Flint, as attached.

 

[david w]

Sounds like leather is the way to go. What thickness do most use? i have a few different kinds.

I don't know what brand of rifle it is, it isn't new and has been covered with rawhide. Here's pics of the rifle and it's lock.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Kenny

I use scraps from a deer hide. It's on the thin side.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

The link below is a photo study of sparks from a lock using both lead and leather to hold the flint. My choice would be to use what made the best sparks:

https://www.blackpowdermag.com/lead-vs-leather-flint-attachment-study/
Regards
Pletch

 

[Coinneach]

The link below is a photo study of sparks from a lock using both lead and leather to hold the flint. My choice would be to use what made the best sparks:

https://www.blackpowdermag.com/lead-vs-leather-flint-attachment-study/
Regards
Pletch

Good article, thank you.

 

[buckleymarka56]

An idea
I am tryi g this too see how it works. I wet some leather strips that hold the flint.
Wrapped the leather around the flint, while it was wet, and wrapped a piece of waxed thread around it to help comfort around the leather.
My idea was faster changing of flints when need be.

Thoughts?
Mark

 

[Johnny Tremain]

**** sells their junk with lead, and Dave's brother Jim told me out right.
Dont do it on his lock. Since I have one, I dont.

 

[64Springer]

An idea
I am tryi g this too see how it works. I wet some leather strips that hold the flint.
Wrapped the leather around the flint, while it was wet, and wrapped a piece of waxed thread around it to help comfort around the leather.
My idea was faster changing of flints when need be.

Thoughts?
Mark

They look dangerous.

According to the ATF, any speeding up of the firing process will turn your muzzleloader into a machine gun.

 

[springfield art]

An idea
I am tryi g this too see how it works. I wet some leather strips that hold the flint.
Wrapped the leather around the flint, while it was wet, and wrapped a piece of waxed thread around it to help comfort around the leather.
My idea was faster changing of flints when need be.

Thoughts?
Mark

Unless one is in an active combat situation, don't know why 'speed' would be needed; this is, after, muzzleloading! Where time stands almost still!

 

[buckleymarka56]

They look dangerous.

According to the ATF, any speeding up of the firing process will turn your muzzleloader into a machine gun.

What about these , are they considered 15 round magazines?
Or a 5 round?