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lead purity question

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Jerry Reichert

32 Cal.
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This question has to do with the purity of the lead used to cast round balls. I obtained 200 pounds of wheel weights for almost free and melted them down into 2 pound ingots. What I discovered was when I started casting 54 cal. round balls they weighted only 219.5 grains instead of 223 grains like pure lead would. I believe there is some tin in the old wheel weights causing this to occur. They appear to shoot fine with very good accuracy. I was told that I should ONLY use PURE lead for the balls in a muzzleloader. Am I missing something, or is this another “campfire tail”. Please enlighten me as I am very new at the black powder sport.

Thanks,

Jerry Reichert
 
There is another thread going on this. Yes WW are hard lead, hard lead is lighter. Will it work as a PRB yes it will. You will have to sight in different between soft PRB's and hard PRB's. They are too hard for hunting in my opinion. Others might feel different. I can't get conicals down my gun without a mallet if they are harder than 9 BHN. WW are 12 BHN. If you are just using them for target go for it. Ron
 
Some time ago, the Bevel Brothers wrote an article for Muzzle Blasts about shooting balls cast out of wheel weights.

What they found was the wheel weight balls shot and loaded best with thinner patches than what is normally used with pure soft lead balls.
I think this was because the harder balls won't deform to match the rifling and as something has to give when objects larger than the bore is crammed into it the cloth patch was the best candidate.

Although they managed to get some good groups they felt that nothing beats pure lead balls and the correct patch for the best accuracy.

Oh, about using thin patches: The patch thickness must be thicker than the rifling groove depth when shooting these harder balls. If it is not, it won't seal the bore and the burning powder gas will burn thru the critical area where the patch meets the barrel.
 
You know, one thing I have learned since joining is that the muzzle loading hobby is very complex and nothing (almost) is set in concrete. I can't believe that in the time I have been a member, especially after going through this thread, I still am far from really understanding most of it. This thread on "lead" and the input by you experienced guys is fantastic. Keep it up!
:v :v :grin: :grin:
 
I knew of an old barrel maker that used to shoot ball bearings out of his rifles. Old timers used to tell about him going up to the backstop after a shoot to pick up bearings for reuse. Now he would shoot a barrel out in a couple of years, but then he would just make another barrel.

If you have 200 pounds that you got for free, I'd learn to shoot it. The wheelweights being a little lighter will shoot a little faster and a little higher than the softer lead. If it really bothers you, get a smoothbore and shoot the WW lead up that way, smoothbores don't care what the lead hardness is.

Many Klatch
 
Jerry: According to the Bevel Brother's Article in Muzzle Blasts, Wheel Weights will produce balls that weigh less, but are Slightly Larger in diameter than that cast with pure lead. The BHN is harder than Pure Lead, too. This is because of tin, as well as trace amounts of antimony sometimes found in WWs.

As long as you sort your balls by weight, you will get good groups shooting WWs. However, as has already been cautioned, they will shoot to a different point of Impact, that where your sights will shoot pure lead balls, and in hunting, they will not expand on hitting flesh like a pure lead ball does. If you are hunting heavy skinned and heavy boned game, like bear, wild boar, elk, Moose, and caribou, this is probably okay. But when hunting thin skinned and soft boned animals like deer, the pure lead ball give superior performance by expanding in the flesh almost on impact, created a much larger Primary Wound Channel on the animal, which causes quick death through loss of blood pressure, and hemorrhaging. You can help negate the effect of HAVING to use a thinner patch with these balls, by using a filler, like corn meal, or an OP Wad, like the Walter's Vegetable Fiber Wads between the powder charge and the PRB. The wad will seal the gases, and protect both the patching, and the lead ball from being burned, and cut, by hot gases squeezing by the thin patch. Burned patches, and Cut balls lead to very inaccurate groups. \

If you shoot modern guns, WWs make excellent HARD bullets for use in revolvers, and rifles. If after some many outings at the range with these WW balls, testing for an accurate load, you are NOT happy with their performance, you can use the lead for this other shooting sport, or trade it to someone who does shoot cast bullets in revolvers and rifles, for pure lead.

For pure lead, look to scrap yards for roof sheathing, and for plumber's lead pipe left overs. The lead in these two items has traditionally been soft lead, and makes excellent round balls. :thumbsup:
 
If they shoot good outa your gun dont worry about what their cast from just shoot em. :thumbsup:
 
You may find a little Tin in wheel weights, but not much. But you will find Antimony and Zinc. I used to work in a lead factory 20 years ago and that's what we added to the lead we manufactured for companies that made wheel weights. a little Antimony is actually added to even the roof sheathing lead, but not as much as the wheel weigh lead. If you can find it, "pot lead" is about the purest you'll find. Ours went out the door rated 99.4% pure.
 
Mark Painter said:
You may find a little Tin in wheel weights, but not much. But you will find Antimony and Zinc. I used to work in a lead factory 20 years ago and that's what we added to the lead we manufactured for companies that made wheel weights. a little Antimony is actually added to even the roof sheathing lead, but not as much as the wheel weigh lead. If you can find it, "pot lead" is about the purest you'll find. Ours went out the door rated 99.4% pure.




Just googled "buy pot lead" got almost 2 million links on how to buy weed but nothing on pure lead. :shake: :haha: :haha: :haha:
 
If they load OK and shoot good there is no down side.
Hardened lead balls have been used since at least the early 19th century for some purposes.
They will load a little harder in most rifles, some land-groove designs/patch-ball fits may not work at all. If they load OK they will work fine.

Dan
 
'pot lead' is the lead that plumbers in ancient times (ha!) before PVC used in the oakum-lead joints of cast iron pipe. I have found some in scrap yards and indeed it is pure lead. also old lead water pipe 'goosenecks' are pure lead as is old shower stall sheeting.
use as pure lead as you can for BP balls and slugs you won't regret it. :thumbsup:
 
FROM J.D.R Additional information on non-pure lead balls. When I posted the question about using non-pure lead balls, I did not indicate my intentions. They are used strictly for target and matches, not hunting. Last week I took several sets of 54 cal. balls to the range and conducted a semi-scientific test. These test are from a Green Mountain barrel 32” long. I first shot balls made from wheel weights weighing 219.5 grains measuring .5296” from a Lee mould, utilizing 40 grains of GOEX FFFg and a .015 pillow ticking patch cut at the muzzle (home made with Borebutter lub.). At 25 yards the 5 shot group was 5/8” center to center. At fifty yards the same combination was 1 3/4” center to center. I then shot the same combination with factory Hornady .530 balls that measure .5309” and weighing 224.4 grains. The group remained about the same, maybe just slightly smaller. I then increased the powder charge to 45 grains with wheel weight balls and the group decreased slightly. I then increased to 50 grains of GOEX FFFg and the group went down to 1 1/8”. The range temperature was 55 degrees no wind and shooting from a bench rest. I single wipe between each shot with lub. therefore the loading of either ball is very easy. The patches from all test appear the be slightly burned at the lands. Additional testing with a 40 cal. will be conducted next week and I will report on the findings.
 
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