Leading in Barrels?

[Brik847]

When you shoot conicals, does lead build up in the barrel? I have been shoot prb's lately, but I have shot conicals and probably will from time to time. I never thought about it before until now. What should you do different in cleaning, since there is no patch to "protect" the projectile and barrel?

 

[roundball]

When you shoot conicals, does lead build up in the barrel? I have been shoot prb's lately, but I have shot conicals and probably will from time to time. I never thought about it before until now. What should you do different in cleaning, since there is no patch to "protect" the projectile and barrel?

Based on my personmal experience with TC Maxi-Hunters and Hornady Great Plains bullets, if you ensure they are well gooped up with lube, and use an overpowder wad like an Oxyoke wonderwad to prevent the base from the fire you shouldn't get any leading at all.

If you think you have lead buildup, one way to get it out with wearing out your shoulder joint is to use one of the electro lead & copper remover kits...I bought one made by Hoppes 15-20 years ago and used it several times to ensure my centerfire rifle and pistol barrels were kept at their clean factory conditions...

 

[Stumpkiller]

Any lead you push over about 1,200 fps that contacts the bore will leave some lead. Lubes help, but won't prevent some. Use J-B Paste occasionally to remove the leading.

 

[BrownBear]

Leading can kind of "sneak up on you." It may take a while to start, but once it does it builds rapidly. A little spot of leading captures more lead in a big hurry. Best to pretend it's there even if you're not sure of it, then clean accordingly. Cuzz once it gets bad enough to notice through increased loading difficulty or a drop in accuracy, you REALLY have your work cut out for you.

I don't shoot conicals much any more, but one of my pards shoots almost nothing else. And he shoots a lot. It only took one time with bad leading to turn him into a religious fanatic about thorough lead removal after each range session.

And his leading has gone down a bunch since he started using a lubed felt overpowder wad. He lubes his a lot more than other folks report, in addition to lots of lube on his conicals. Hard to argue with his success.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Stupkiller is correct,
I have sent thousand of cast bullets out of my fast twist muzzleloaders before I became addicted to PRB. The best way I have found to combate lead fouling is JB past lathered on a little med steel wool wrapped around a bore size brush during the cleaning process.

 

[BrownBear]

Hey Greenmountainboy-

Sounds like you would be the one to know, but I never shot enough conicals to find out for myself. Could be more of that in my future, so this is a request for "file it away for later info."

Did you ever feel the need or try polishing the bore? In my many years of competitive handgun shooting (virtually all revolver) rough forcing cones were a source of severe leading. I still have the equipment for polishing forcing cones, even changing their angle in order to reduce leading.

Different equipment and techniques for sure, but if I get back into conicals (thinking about a 45 caliber target gun), should I put bore polishing on the list?

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I would.
I have switched from J.B. paste to Neco four part lapping compound for breaking in new barrels and cleaning excessive lead or copper fouling.
:thumbsup:

 

[Idaho Ron]

In my 45 fast twist I was shooting just lubed bullets. The soft lead bullets left lead behind no matter what I did. I cast some hard and the lead didn't stick at all. I went back to soft lead and paper patch and I like that combo a lot. Ron

 

[Greenmtnboy]

That make sence.
Do you fine excessive wear using a paperpatch?
I haven't been able to shoot in my new .451 Rigby as of yet and haven't decided on lead fouling or barrel wear.
All tho I am sure it would take many paperpatches to wear a new barrel.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Look at it this way. You are going to have wear on the barrel. Either from scrubbing or from the patch shooting. I would rather have wear from shooting, but my PP is heavily lubed. I lube them and size them after they are wrapped. they look like this.

I have shot maybe 100 rounds so far. If it has extra wear I can't see it. Most of my groups so far are 1 1/2" or less at 100 yards. My best group was .697" at 100 yards.
What are you going to shoot in that Rigby? and are you going to use it for target or hunting? Mine is a .458 Green Mountain 1-18 twist. I have only used it for target so far and love the gun. All I am waiting for is a good tag to use mine for hunting. I am going to take it rabbit hunting soon. A 385 gr bullet shot be enough for those BIG Idaho rabbits :wink: Ron

 

[Brik847]

How do I use a bore brush without getting it trapped down there (the barrel becomes like one of those toy finger traps)?

 

[paulvallandigham]

In my 45 fast twist I was shooting just lubed bullets. The soft lead bullets left lead behind no matter what I did. I cast some hard and the lead didn't stick at all. I went back to soft lead and paper patch and I like that combo a lot. Ron

___________________________________

Anytime you have a lead bullet traveling more than 1200 fps, you are going to get leading. There are some hard alloys that leave a minimum amount of lead in the barrel, but you get leading. That is why the PRB works so much better, and why combining a soft lead ball with a cloth patch produces the best projectile for killing deer, and other soft skinned animals.

 

[roundball]

How do I use a bore brush without getting it trapped down there (the barrel becomes like one of those toy finger traps)?

It's embarrassingly easy Brik...if you get a brush hung up down bore, DO NOT JUST PULL ON IT...just rotate the ramrod clockwise and the bristles...which are pointed straight out biting against the bore walls...will start to curve and lose their bite, and then you can just slide the ramrod right up out of the bore.

DO NOT use gorilla force trying to pull a ramrod straight out...almost never works and usually ends up having the stuck end of the ramrod pull off...then you have a whole 'nuther problem...just rotate the rod clockwise and slide it out

 

[Zonie]

Yup. The harder you pull up on a stuck bore brush, the more it drives the bristles into the walls of the bore.
As roundball said, rotating the ramrod and brush clockwise without applying any upward pressure will start to bend the bristles to the side. When you feel the brush start to rotate, then apply some upward pressure as you continue to rotate the brush. This will allow the bristles to bend down towards the breech and the whole thing will slide back out of the barrel.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Anytime you have a lead bullet traveling more than 1200 fps, you are going to get leading. There are some hard alloys that leave a minimum amount of lead in the barrel, but you get leading. That is why the PRB works so much better, and why combining a soft lead ball with a cloth patch produces the best projectile for killing deer, and other soft skinned animals.

__________________________________________________

By best you mean in your opinion. I am not in that camp. And I respectfully disagree. Ron

 

[paulvallandigham]

Anytime you have a lead bullet traveling more than 1200 fps, you are going to get leading. There are some hard alloys that leave a minimum amount of lead in the barrel, but you get leading. That is why the PRB works so much better, and why combining a soft lead ball with a cloth patch produces the best projectile for killing deer, and other soft skinned animals.

__________________________________________________

By best you mean in your opinion. I am not in that camp. And I respectfully disagree. Ron

Have it your way, Ron. This is a free country, and everyone has the right to be wrong!

I have seen the tissue damage done by a PRB, and I have seen the damage done by a conical in deer. Both are impressive. The lesser recoil of the PRB allowed me to be much more accurate, than when shooting the conical.

 

[BrownBear]

At the longer ranges Ron has to shoot mule deer, it boils down to ballistics. I love my roundballs too, but I'm shooting inside 100 yards. When field conditions dictat that the typical range stretches beyond 100, sign me up for conicals. Basic science backing proven performance.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Look at it this way. You are going to have wear on the barrel. Either from scrubbing or from the patch shooting. I would rather have wear from shooting, but my PP is heavily lubed. I lube them and size them after they are wrapped. they look like this.

I have shot maybe 100 rounds so far. If it has extra wear I can't see it. Most of my groups so far are 1 1/2" or less at 100 yards. My best group was .697" at 100 yards.
What are you going to shoot in that Rigby? and are you going to use it for target or hunting? Mine is a .458 Green Mountain 1-18 twist. I have only used it for target so far and love the gun. All I am waiting for is a good tag to use mine for hunting. I am going to take it rabbit hunting soon. A 385 gr bullet shot be enough for those BIG Idaho rabbits :wink: Ron

I have a .451 Greenmtnbarrel.
I got the 450grn Lyman mold and am casting all lead bullets, I'm using SPG lube during the sizing and lubing process.And will shoot an over powder card.
I may use it next fall during our muzzleloading season if I find one of thos huge above timber bucks.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

At the longer ranges Ron has to shoot mule deer, it boils down to ballistics. I love my roundballs too, but I'm shooting inside 100 yards. When field conditions dictat that the typical range stretches beyond 100, sign me up for conicals. Basic science backing proven performance.

I agree,
Out here in CO, 100 yrds shots are not uncommon.
In the past Wile hunting with a PRB I have chosen not to hunt an animal because they were in the two hundred yrds range above tree line with no contour worth low crawling through, and were not going to move into the timber anytime soon.
I have seen some monster bucks hang out above tree line all summer and in order to hunt them you would have to be one hellofa stalker with a two hundred yrd rifle.
I think you could with short adjustable creedmoor sites stretch a 54 cal or bigger RB to 150 maby 200yrds. My biggest concern above tree line is wind.
I have seen my 54 RB get pushed six inches at 100 yrds.

 

[BrownBear]

I was curious what could be managed at longer ranges with a PRB, so I shot my GPR 50 and GPR 54 at 100, 150, 200 and 300 yards. Past 100 yards fuggedabowdit, at least for the kind of accuracy I demand for shots on game. Yeah, in a combat setting I could hit a man often enough to be worthwhile at 300, but I'd be just as happy wounding as killing in that setting.

In contrast, I shot one of the unmentionables with an assortment of conicals at the same time. 200 yards is not an idle claim for me with a scope. But that's playtoy stuff and nothing I hunt with.

But with the right open sights, a fast twist and a good load, I'm betting I could come close to the same kind of performance using lead conicals. Just not much use for it here.