Leather or Lead?

[Ken Rummer]

I think lead will flow when stressed which would loosen up the clamping force.

 

[jbtusa]

I prefer lead. The flints seem to last longer.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I think lead will flow when stressed which would loosen up the clamping force.

Been using lead for a while. Experiement over, lead does come loose. Going back to leather.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

See? Told ya you'd get lots of answers.....

But wait, there's more!

:haha:

 

[MSW]

yep- the "Pandora's Box" comment gets it in one. Some folks will swear by lead and some by leather.

i like leather for two of my rifles, and lead for the other three- go figure.

what you should do is try both and see what works for that particular gun.

what you should not do is blindly follow someone else's dictates, no matter how passionate that person might be. (but then again, if muzzle loaders were prone to that sort of silliness, we'd chuck the MLs and buy 'black' rifles, and we'd all look like some tricked- out Rambo wanna be shooting nothing but .223 and saying stuff like "i love the smell of napalm in the morning")

try a few different things and see what works best...

welcome to the forum, by the way.

(by way of research, i weighed ten leather patches, ten flints and ten leather patches. they revealed that the lead is not substantially heavier. the links will confirm that Pletch is right- it doesn't seem to make all that much difference.)

OK- that's the end of the rant ... you can take your earplugs out now.

:rotf:

 

[ebiggs1]

Welcome to the forum and flintlocks!

Leather is way better for beginners because it is way easier to set up and much more forgiving. :thumbsup:
Lead will work but I see no advantage whatsoever and therefore do not recommend it. :nono:

Some of the above mentioned “tips” has old thoughts that has since been shown not to be true so read with that caveat. I don't think they ever get “updated”. :hmm:

 

[Claude Mathis]

Any recommendations from the group?

Try both and see which one your gun prefers.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Claude has said it all.

 

[Stumpkiller]

He remembers when they discovered leather and how everyone switched over to it. :rotf:

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I am in favor of lead. In doing tests, as Paul V. alluded to, I found that lead made a better spark. That is, of course, a completely subjective observation. But I was convinced sufficiently to start using it on all my flintlocks. I have since done more testing and am coming around to Wick Ellerbe’s position.

If you want nothing else that something to hold the flint in the jaws of the cock, than any leather will do. If instead you wish the material holding the flint to add to the whole process of igniting the charge you will need to do some experimenting. Not all leathers will benefit the process.

I am finding that a thin, hard leather, in a small lock, gives a good spark. Soft leathers, I have observed, are worthless. The soft leather will hold the flint in the jaws but minimizes the spark potential of the flint. I am now testing with medium size rifle locks to see if the hard leather will work as well as lead.

As far as lead not holding as well as leather, once again a bit of knowledge goes a long way. I carefully cut my lead wrap to minimum size to hold the flint, Tighten it down than shoot it 3 to 5 times, tighten it down again and normally that is all I have to do until the flint needs replacing. I hope that helps you and welcome to the Forum.

 

[hanshi]

It will certainly loosen up if all you use is the lead. Basically all I did was to "add" the lead to the leather wrap for extra weight. It's not much weight but it seems to help in the case of a couple of small locks. Otherwise it's leather only for me.

 

[Claude Mathis]

He remembers when they discovered leather and how everyone switched over to it. :rotf:

As I remember it, we were both pretty excited when we discovered fire too. :grin:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

I thought this might end by now, but I should have known better. I did a photographic comparison some time back. Here is the link:
Leather vs Lead Photographs

Regards,
Pletch

 

[ebiggs1]

I have done this experience several times and I get the same conclusion as you. They both work but the leather is easier to use so why not? BTW, anybody can do this if they have a camera that came be set to manual exposure. It is very simple and easy. That way they don't have to take our word for it. I have tested five different brands, makes of locks, and still see no improvement using lead. The photographic evidence is so much better than the other method that has been suggested.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Ernie,

Thanks for posting. I agree that this the to answer the leather/lead question for anyone's lock. The length of exposure only needs to be long enough to give you time to trigger the gun.

The other big question this answers is, " Are the sparks landing in the right place?". In Ernie's pic there is no doubt that the sparks are placed VERY well.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[roundball]

"...Any recommendations from the group?..."

I see a new dimension has been introduced..."hard leather" vs. "soft leather".

To specifically share my experience over the years of shooting and hunting Flintlocks using "medium sized locks" from Thompson / Center and Jim Chambers, I'll repeat that cowhide (being fairly firm) has always been excellent...and that the thicker, softer, spongy Elk hide has been even better, outstanding...never suffered the first ignition problem in any lock over 12 years and 12,000+ shots because of any piece of leather.

IMO, if anyone has to use lead to "improve" performance with any lock, they have a lock problem and are simply compensating for it...need to do some root cause analysis and fix the problem at the source, not cover it up with bandaides.

In this photo, you can clearly see the thick piece of soft Elk hide in the jaws, and with Flintlock deer hunting being the most important Flintlock activity I do every year, you can take it to the bank I would not be using anything inferior as it relates to Flintlock ignition.

THICK SOFT SPONGY ELK HIDE FLINT WRAP

[/quote]

 

[tg]

Do you really dare to compare the photograpy with the lock yourself in a dark closet with your gun technique? :wink:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Do you really dare to compare the photograpy with the lock yourself in a dark closet with your gun technique? :wink:

The pics on my link were taken in my garage with a 4 second shutter. They're taken to get side-by-side comparison between leather and lead as the method of attachment. A side benefit is to make sure the sparks are plentiful and landing in the pan. (I've photographed locks that landed the sparks in front of the pan. The pic allowed us to see what was causing the problem.)

I'm not sure if that answers your question.
Regards,
Pleth

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I believe every one can agree that this topic falls into the minutia category. And all observations are subjective. Even the photographs are of a particular lock with particular flints in various state of use. My observations were made extensively enough to satisfy my curiosity. If the lock has good geometry and you are using proper size, sharp flints your flintlock will fire quickly and dependably regardless of what material you use. My opinion is lead is better. I am not trying to convince anyone or denigrate anyones opinion. It is my opinion. What I would encourage you to do is to experiment, if it is important to you, otherwise use whatever is convenient.

 

[hanshi]

The ignition pictures look the same to me for both lead and leather. The only question I see is does leather hold the flint more securely? I think it does. Just an old man's opinion.