- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
- Messages
- 14,767
- Reaction score
- 320
Atsa mouthful right there! Nothing in the world like that great smell and the sight of a new spread of leather between your hands.
Leather recommendation
- Thread starter MIOutdoorsman
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Atsa mouthful right there! Nothing in the world like that great smell and the sight of a new spread of leather between your hands.
- Joined
- May 6, 2014
- Messages
- 17,462
- Reaction score
- 16,523
I hope this post does not read like I’m trying to be a “know-it-all” on choosing leather, as I’m far from anything like that. I have been doing amateur leather work from the very early 1970’s, though, and I hope this post will be especially useful to those who are new to buying leather so it may save those forum members some of the mistakes/problems I made or ran across over the years.
A very important aspect of leather is that it is flexible enough for the project one is planning, especially for a Shot Pouch/Hunting Bag. I think it was from Brown Bear I learned this is called the “temper” of each piece of leather. I spent more than a few decades going through piles of leather pieces not knowing that, but learning to choose pieces of leather by feel for this flexibility/”temper.”
This may be why for many years folks preferred 3 to 3 ½ oz. vegetable tanned leather for Shot Pouches/Hunting Bags, as they could be pretty darn sure the leather they got would make a good pouch/bag. Since the leather comes as a neutral color, it can be dyed to whatever color the person wants. This type and original color of the leather is also correct for both 18th and 19th centuries, the period covered by this forum.
Personally, I have sometimes found 3 to 3 ½ oz. vegetable tanned leather a tiny bit too thin for my tastes for a Shot Pouch/Hunting Bag. HOWEVER, I have normally been fortunate enough to be able to walk into a leather store and feel the pieces of leather to find pieces with the correct flexibility/temper that would make 4 to 4 ½/5 oz. leather into a nice sturdy, but plenty flexible enough Shot Pouch/Hunting Bag. Well, many people on the forum just can’t do that.
My experiences with what was then called Oil Tanned Leather in the mid late 70’s/early 80’s was quite different from the Oil Tan leather often sold today. Back then, most of that stuff would not/did not make an acceptable Shot Pouch/Hunting Bag. So a couple/few years ago, I began to take notice of Brown Bear and others recommending Oil Tanned Leather. Since Brown Bear lives in Alaska where they have so much rain, sleet and snow; a pouch/bag that holds up there should hold up anywhere in the lower 48.
One thing I’m concerned about after having made things that were not historically correct and having to replace them, is to try to make things as historically correct as possible and that includes what types of leather/s I use. OK, I found plenty of 18th century documentation for what they called “stuffd/stuffed” or less commonly “oil stuffed” leather, where oils and waxes were worked into the leather. Capt Jas also found out the Oil Tan leather from Tandy was done on vegetable tanned hides, so that means it is historically correct.
OK, so the next thing I wanted to do was actually go to a Tandy Store and look and FEEL the Oil Tan leather. I think the following is extremely important to those of us who were/are used to Veg. Tanned leather, but not used to Oil Tan leather and also important for those new to leather buying.
I have to admit how surprised I was at how much thinner and flexible that Tandy’s Oil Tan leather was by feel, than what I was expecting by the listed oz. size. I looked at the “4 to 4.5 oz. Stoned Oil Sides” first. I was expecting the leather to be thicker, as I’m used to the feel of that oz. weight in vegetable tan leather. I was almost shocked it looked/felt much more like 3 to 3 ½ oz Veg Tan leather in thickness. OK, so while I’m looking through the pile of sides of leather, I’m trying to figure out why. Then it finally dawned on me the reason might be because leather “thickness” is sold by weight of what a one foot square piece of the leather would weigh. The added oils/waxes would add weight and thus make the leather thinner than the same oz. size weight of Veg Tan leather I was used to. So I asked the girl who showed me the pile of leather and she confirmed that was part of the reason, but also it had to do with how the leather was rolled during the tanning process. I think this especially important to someone new to buying leather, because they might get confused after reading some folks think 4 to 4.5 oz. would be too thick for a pouch/bag. That oz. weight leather might be too thick for them in Veg Tanned leather, while it most likely won’t be in Oil Tan leather.
The next thing that I was concerned about was if Tandy’s Oil Tan leather was dyed the same color all the way through the leather. When leather is dyed/waxed at the factory, it may not be easy to dye the edges after one cuts the leather into pieces. (Brown Bear mentioned this in his post just above this post.) I was pleased to learn Tandy’s Oil tan is dyed all the way through. OK, here is what I found when I looked through the piles of the two types of Oil Tan leather Tandy offers for sale.
First, 4 to 4.5 oz. Stoned Oil Sides,
https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/stoned-oil-sides
I was genuinely impressed with this leather. It is “thin enough” I think even those who like thinner leather would be pleased with this leather. The “temper” or flexibility was great. The top “finish” on the smooth side is compatible/correct for 18th and 19th century leather goods. The only thing I would caution folks about is since you can’t dye this leather, you must pick the color you like best. Personally, I liked the Tan color the best with the Dark Brown second and the black third, but that is only a matter of personal taste. The Tan color is a bit darker than what I would call “Tan,” actually it is more of a light to medium Brown and looks very good to my eye.
Second, 4 to 5 oz. Kodiak
https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/kodiak-sides
Normally, I like Veg Tan leather a bit thicker than the 3 to 3 ½ oz thickness, though I realize I must do additional work to soften it and make it more flexible for a shot pouch/hunting bag. For me, this thickness of the Kodiak Leather felt great. I was really starting to get excited about it until the piece I was looking at caught the light inside the store just right and I noticed the “factory finish” on the smooth side of the leather. The entire top surface is covered by an impressed “graining” that I don’t believe would have been seen in 18th/19th century leather. DARN IT!! Well, that ruled it out for me as I don’t want to use leather that is not compatible/correct for our time period. However, for someone who isn’t into reenacting/historical living history, this is an excellent leather for a hunting pouch.
OK, bottom line is for someone new to working leather, I don’t think one could go wrong at all with Tandy’s 4 to 4.5 oz. Stoned Oil Sides in the color one prefers and it be correct/compatible for our time period. You won’t have to worry about staining it or working it to soften it, just cut it into pieces and sew it up. I would still recommend a thin coat of oil on the rough side from time to time, like all leather goods of course.
Gus
A very important aspect of leather is that it is flexible enough for the project one is planning, especially for a Shot Pouch/Hunting Bag. I think it was from Brown Bear I learned this is called the “temper” of each piece of leather. I spent more than a few decades going through piles of leather pieces not knowing that, but learning to choose pieces of leather by feel for this flexibility/”temper.”
This may be why for many years folks preferred 3 to 3 ½ oz. vegetable tanned leather for Shot Pouches/Hunting Bags, as they could be pretty darn sure the leather they got would make a good pouch/bag. Since the leather comes as a neutral color, it can be dyed to whatever color the person wants. This type and original color of the leather is also correct for both 18th and 19th centuries, the period covered by this forum.
Personally, I have sometimes found 3 to 3 ½ oz. vegetable tanned leather a tiny bit too thin for my tastes for a Shot Pouch/Hunting Bag. HOWEVER, I have normally been fortunate enough to be able to walk into a leather store and feel the pieces of leather to find pieces with the correct flexibility/temper that would make 4 to 4 ½/5 oz. leather into a nice sturdy, but plenty flexible enough Shot Pouch/Hunting Bag. Well, many people on the forum just can’t do that.
My experiences with what was then called Oil Tanned Leather in the mid late 70’s/early 80’s was quite different from the Oil Tan leather often sold today. Back then, most of that stuff would not/did not make an acceptable Shot Pouch/Hunting Bag. So a couple/few years ago, I began to take notice of Brown Bear and others recommending Oil Tanned Leather. Since Brown Bear lives in Alaska where they have so much rain, sleet and snow; a pouch/bag that holds up there should hold up anywhere in the lower 48.
One thing I’m concerned about after having made things that were not historically correct and having to replace them, is to try to make things as historically correct as possible and that includes what types of leather/s I use. OK, I found plenty of 18th century documentation for what they called “stuffd/stuffed” or less commonly “oil stuffed” leather, where oils and waxes were worked into the leather. Capt Jas also found out the Oil Tan leather from Tandy was done on vegetable tanned hides, so that means it is historically correct.
OK, so the next thing I wanted to do was actually go to a Tandy Store and look and FEEL the Oil Tan leather. I think the following is extremely important to those of us who were/are used to Veg. Tanned leather, but not used to Oil Tan leather and also important for those new to leather buying.
I have to admit how surprised I was at how much thinner and flexible that Tandy’s Oil Tan leather was by feel, than what I was expecting by the listed oz. size. I looked at the “4 to 4.5 oz. Stoned Oil Sides” first. I was expecting the leather to be thicker, as I’m used to the feel of that oz. weight in vegetable tan leather. I was almost shocked it looked/felt much more like 3 to 3 ½ oz Veg Tan leather in thickness. OK, so while I’m looking through the pile of sides of leather, I’m trying to figure out why. Then it finally dawned on me the reason might be because leather “thickness” is sold by weight of what a one foot square piece of the leather would weigh. The added oils/waxes would add weight and thus make the leather thinner than the same oz. size weight of Veg Tan leather I was used to. So I asked the girl who showed me the pile of leather and she confirmed that was part of the reason, but also it had to do with how the leather was rolled during the tanning process. I think this especially important to someone new to buying leather, because they might get confused after reading some folks think 4 to 4.5 oz. would be too thick for a pouch/bag. That oz. weight leather might be too thick for them in Veg Tanned leather, while it most likely won’t be in Oil Tan leather.
The next thing that I was concerned about was if Tandy’s Oil Tan leather was dyed the same color all the way through the leather. When leather is dyed/waxed at the factory, it may not be easy to dye the edges after one cuts the leather into pieces. (Brown Bear mentioned this in his post just above this post.) I was pleased to learn Tandy’s Oil tan is dyed all the way through. OK, here is what I found when I looked through the piles of the two types of Oil Tan leather Tandy offers for sale.
First, 4 to 4.5 oz. Stoned Oil Sides,
https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/stoned-oil-sides
I was genuinely impressed with this leather. It is “thin enough” I think even those who like thinner leather would be pleased with this leather. The “temper” or flexibility was great. The top “finish” on the smooth side is compatible/correct for 18th and 19th century leather goods. The only thing I would caution folks about is since you can’t dye this leather, you must pick the color you like best. Personally, I liked the Tan color the best with the Dark Brown second and the black third, but that is only a matter of personal taste. The Tan color is a bit darker than what I would call “Tan,” actually it is more of a light to medium Brown and looks very good to my eye.
Second, 4 to 5 oz. Kodiak
https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/kodiak-sides
Normally, I like Veg Tan leather a bit thicker than the 3 to 3 ½ oz thickness, though I realize I must do additional work to soften it and make it more flexible for a shot pouch/hunting bag. For me, this thickness of the Kodiak Leather felt great. I was really starting to get excited about it until the piece I was looking at caught the light inside the store just right and I noticed the “factory finish” on the smooth side of the leather. The entire top surface is covered by an impressed “graining” that I don’t believe would have been seen in 18th/19th century leather. DARN IT!! Well, that ruled it out for me as I don’t want to use leather that is not compatible/correct for our time period. However, for someone who isn’t into reenacting/historical living history, this is an excellent leather for a hunting pouch.
OK, bottom line is for someone new to working leather, I don’t think one could go wrong at all with Tandy’s 4 to 4.5 oz. Stoned Oil Sides in the color one prefers and it be correct/compatible for our time period. You won’t have to worry about staining it or working it to soften it, just cut it into pieces and sew it up. I would still recommend a thin coat of oil on the rough side from time to time, like all leather goods of course.
Gus
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2018
- Messages
- 326
- Reaction score
- 124
Leather for bags, in my opinion, should be what ever the maker is pleased with and fits the style. I prefer 2 oz. and under. I find "biker chap" stuff in the light weight to be nice although color and finis are somewhat limited. The color can be fixed, the finish, not so much so shopping around and checking swatches is needed. I have had leather skived down to 1 oz. for several projects. As was stated above, garment weight will work quite well depending on the design of the bag. I have one I made years ago with literal ladies glove leather. It was so thin I used two pieces for each part of the bag with a welt and roll edge. Worked great and was sure nice to hunt with. Here is what it looks like about 40 some years later. I converted it from a shoulder bag to a belt bag and now its going back to a shoulder bag.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
- Messages
- 14,767
- Reaction score
- 320
Atsa way. There's a whole lot of leather out there that's not in leather stores, and if you keep your eye on thrift stores you can get it for less than most folks pay for the ticking they use for patches. My brother retired his old welding chaps, apron and gauntlets, but just couldn't bring himself to throw away the memories. Stanky looking things after a couple decades of welding and grease. At his suggestion I "converted" the leather into something else he wanted to keep around. My only regret was that he didn't give them to me to make bags with. Looked about 200 years old right from the gitgo.
