leather thickness for possibles bag

[Mean Gene]

What thickness of leather do you think would be best for making a possibles bag?

I purchased a two oz piece of leather to make my first bag from scratch but I'm beginning to question if it's too thin. :hmm:

 

[Artificer]

Gene,

It looks like answering this question is going to cost me money, but that's a good thing I will explain later. :wink:

Most people prefer at least a 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 Oz. Veg Tanned leather for Shooting Pouches. Some folks like 3 to 4 oz. Veg tanned for a slightly thicker pouch.

However, Brown Bear turned me onto Tandy's Oil Tan Leather that he really likes for the nasty and wet conditions he often encounters up in Alaska. Now, it is rated at a larger Oz. size, BUT that is not because the leather is thicker, but because the Oil adds weight to the hide. I found this out when I visited our local Tandy some months back.

Out of the two Oiled Leathers Brown Bear mentioned, Stoned Oil Sides and Kodiak Oiled Sides, I MUCH preferred the Stoned Oil Sides. Now the reason this is going to cost me money is it looks like the Stoned Oil Sides are on Sale at $ 114.95 in each color. I hope I don't miss this sale as they were running around $ 190.00 the last time I visited my local store. I personally liked the Tan color, but others may prefer the dark brown or black colors.
https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/stoned-oil-sides

The Kodiak oiled sides Brown Bear mentioned are here:
https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/kodiak-sides

Below is a link to my "report" on those leathers from my last trip to Tandy. The links in that post don't work now, but you may find the information useful.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/1585313/

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

I'll add an insight to working with either of those oiled leathers: It's sure a lot easier to work with. Unrelated to muzzleloading I just finished building a couple of camera cases using 6 oz veg tanned and square 90-degree seams. Boy, did I ever miss the oil tanned!

 

[Artificer]

I imagine the oil in the leather would allow an Awl to pierce it easier than the normal "bone dry" Veg Tan Leather?

Oh, for those not familiar with these leathers, the leather is not "Oily," it just has more oil already in the leather. The surface is plenty dry, though I'm not sure how it would take a stain. I saw no reason to stain it though, as the colors of the leather were very nice for period reproduction leather work.

BTW, I want to thank you again for recommending these two leathers. I was extremely impressed with the Stoned Oil Sides and am really looking forward to buying some.

Gus

 

[Spikebuck]

This is an interesting topic to me, not for making a bag (I have enough irons in the fire already) but because the bags I have purchased commercially are fairly thick leather (I believe 6 oz). One bag is from October Country and another from The Leatherman.

Last fall, for bowhunting, I purchased a wool "shooting bag" from G Fred Asbell for traditional bowhunting. It is, for all practical purposes, exactly like a muzzleloader shooting bag gusseted with two large main pockets and a couple smaller ones. I LOVE it because the bag is so much more "giving" when I reach inside for something vs being stiff and unyielding.

It made me think that if I buy or ever make a bag, I want one with thinner leather to better mimic what I get out of that wool bag.

 

[Katahdin]

T.C.Albert wrote a book about this very subject,"Recreating the 18th Century Hunting Pouch".. I.S.B.N. 13-978-9765797-1-7 good read.

 

[Artificer]

Spikebuck,

I made my first Shooting Pouch in the summer of 1972 when I was L/Cpl in the Marine Corps and stationed at Camp Pendleton, CA. I had no mentor and there was almost nothing on making a period Shooting Pouch that I knew of at that time. I made mine by trying to copy ones I saw in paintings in books. I also knew almost nothing about leather working back then and was not making much money. However, I wanted to try to make a Shooting Pouch to go along with my brand new TC Hawken Rifle.

One weekend I found the Tandy Leather Store in Oceanside and went in to see about getting some leather and hopefully some book or publication that would help me. There really wasn’t any publication that dealt with that kind of leather working, so I was bound to make a number of mistakes.

They did not have any buckskin and certainly not any brain tanned buckskin. The closest thing they had was “Golden Buckskin Color” Cowhide splits. I later learned those splits ran 3 ½ to 4 oz. weight, but I didn’t know Oz. weight of leather back then. The splits seemed to have been thick enough to hold shape for a shooting pouch to my uneducated mind. I got talked into using lace to assemble the pouch and the round star punch to make the holes. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe they were deliberately trying to steer me wrong, but they just didn’t know any better. Many “Hippie” bags, purses and pouches were being made like that in those days. So back to the open squad bay in the barracks I went with my “goodies” to make the pouch.

I used newspaper to make patterns of the pieces and was relieved that G.I. issue scissors were strong enough and sharp enough to cut the cowhide split. Since I didn’t really know what I was doing, it took the rest of that weekend, some nights the next week and the next weekend to finish the pouch. Except for the lacing, it looked pretty close to the pictures in the books. (Not too long ago LaBonte mentioned some original pouches from Texas and the Southwest were made by lacing, so the pouch was more accurate than I knew for a long time.)

Anyway, I put the “stuff” in the bag I needed to shoot the TC Hawken and found even at the 3 ½ to 4 oz. thickness, it was so soft that it folded up when I tried to get anything out of or return anything to the pouch. IOW, complete failure for a shooting pouch. A few years later, it did work as a storage pouch hung from an Ozan rope in our full size Tipi Lodge, though, so I got some good out of it.

The problem with the cowhide split was the “temper” or pliability of the hide was just too soft/pliable to work for a shooting pouch. I later learned that Veg Tanned Leather in that thickness was fine for a Shooting Pouch, but that is because it has a different temper.

Gus

 

[stikshooter]

Using what I have to work with I have done several day bags using home tanned deer hides but none compare to examples on this site but work for me .
I am halfway thru a bobcat hide for a special occasion possibles bag and had concerns about leather thickness , after reading this I might need a liner or maybe it will end up a wall hanger and stick with deer.

 

[Ole Frog]

I purchase 4-5 oz Oak-Leaf leather sides

I think the 2-3 oz is too thin

I will take a look at the oil tanned sides
but I am pretty happy with the finished look of the oak-leaf

 

[Artificer]

Back in May of last year, Brown Bear or someone else brought up that Tandy was having a sale on 4-5 oz Single Shoulders. I went to our local Tandy and went through the entire pile as they were only asking about thirty bucks apiece. I was surprised how large some of the pieces were and by the quality of them. I was only going to buy one or two, but picked out five because it was such a good deal. The ones I picked out were closer to 4 oz than 5 oz and I was extremely happy with the thickness and temper, as I also normally like a little thicker leather in my Shooting Pouches than some folks like.

The only "problem" with those shoulders is the leather is not long enough to cut full length, one piece straps. However, I almost always make my straps from two pieces with an adjustment buckle, so it was no problem for me.

Those Craftsman Single Shoulders come on sale from time to time, so if you have a Tandy Store in your area, you might want to watch the monthly sales. I think you will be very pleased with that leather in the thickness you like and especially at the sale prices.

Gus

 

[Katahdin]

Page 3, top of paragraph, vegetable tanned. T.C. Alberts book above,suggest 3-4 oz leather. Any one using fur on for bags?? Should this question be a another posting???

 

[stikshooter]

Page 3, top of paragraph, vegetable tanned. T.C. Alberts book above,suggest 3-4 oz leather. Any one using fur on for bags?? Should this question be a another posting???

My bob cat has all his hair ,just rearranging the hide part :grin:

 

[Mean Gene]

Thank you Gus and to you other gents for your information and knowledge on this subject.
I'm going ahead and using the two oz leather I bought and because this is a learning experience for me, I've never made a bag before like this so if I mess up it won't cost too much.
The style of bag I'm making I don't know the name of it has a U shape with a sale back shape in the middle.
The leather is super soft and I figured it might have a tendency to collapse in the center, so I'm sewing in a thin stick of plastic into the seam down in that saddle back for support.
The next time I make a bag I will look for 3 to 4 oz oil soaked leather instead I was surprised to see just how thin 2 oz turned out to be.

Thanks again, Gene.

 

[Artificer]

Gene,

You are most welcome.

Just wanted to make something clear for Forum Members who do not have a lot of experience with leather.

Though the Stoned Oil Sides from Tandy are listed as 4 to 4 1/2 oz, in actual thickness, they are about the same as 3 to 3 ½ oz. Vegetable Tanned leather. Stoned Oil Sides (or any Oiled Leathers) are heavier by weight due to the added oil in the leather ”“ so they are thinner in thickness than Vegetable Tan Leather at the same Oz. weight.

Other leather suppliers offer Oiled Leather in 4 to 5 oz. weight. I would ask the Supplier before I ordered, but I would expect the leather to be the same thickness as the 3 to 4 oz. Veg Tanned leather suggested by T.C. Albert’s Book.

For some folks who like a little thicker leather for their shooting pouches and as thick as the 4 to 5 oz. Veg tanned leather, some Suppliers offer 5 to 6 oz. Oil Tan leather that would be that thickness.

Also, if you want to dye the leather, then buy the Vegetable Tan in the oz. thickness you like, as the Oil Tan won’t dye well. If you don’t want to dye the leather and you like the color of Oil Tan leather, then buy it in the color you like.

A final caution on some Oil Tan Leather like the Tandy Kodiak Leather. If you want to make an HC/PC shooting pouch, DO NOT buy leather that has been artificially grained to “enhance the look of the leather.” For example;while I liked the Tandy Kodiak Oil Tan Leather, I won’t buy it for shooting pouches, because it is artificially grained and not HC/PC. With the Vegetable Tan Leathers, you rarely, if ever have to worry about it having been artificially grained.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

The leather is super soft and I figured it might have a tendency to collapse in the center, so I'm sewing in a thin stick of plastic into the seam down in that saddle back for support.

I'll be curious to see what you turn out, so keep us posted. Never thought of doing it that way.

Coupla other ways I've dealt with thin leather:

Glue together two layers for the back panel before sewing, which actually works out quite well.

I also limit the size of my bags made from soft leather. One of my favorites is made from 2-3 oz leather, and it's just big enough for me to stick my hand into, close it around something, and withdraw my fist without it hanging up. If that makes sense. Turns out to be just 6"x 6" with a 1" gusset. Sounds pretty small, but boy is it handy for holding just a few shooting items and not the whole kitchen sink and a year's supply of powder and lead. :wink:

 

[BillinOregon]

Gene, substitute a piece of nice, stiff rawhide for the plastic.

 

[George]

Stoned Oil Sides (or any Oiled Leathers) are heavier by weight due to the added oil in the leather ”“ so they are thinner in thickness than Vegetable Tan Leather at the same Oz. weight.

I don't know from leather, but according to Tandy's online buying guide, the "weight" of their leather in ounces actually has nothing to do with real weight. They say 1 ounce leather is 1/64" thick, period, apparently regardless of type of skin or tanning method. So that means 7 ounce leather is 7/64", whether vegetable or oil tanned.

Both my main shot pouches are made of pigskin splits which measure just over 1/16", .070". That means my leather is rated as 4.48 ounce. I always wondered. :wink:

BTW, I made those bags in 1994 and 1997, have used them frequently and hard in all weathers, since, and they have held up remarkably well. I can recommend pigskin.

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

Thickness chart if anyone needs it.... http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/217706/

 

[Artificer]

Spence,

The Ounce weight of leather originally came from weighing a square foot of leather that was soaked with water. Generally today it is true that each ounce weight of leather is 1/64” thick, but that is usually for dry leather. The Oil Tan skins I examined in Tandy were thinner that what they were supposed to be for the “general rule” that each ounce is 1/64” thick. This may be true because of the added weight of the oil in the Oil Tan Skins (which is what I was informed) or it may be the Oil Tan Skins were rolled thinner to squeeze out the excess oil.

Bottom line, if you go off Tandy’s Chart and by what they advertise the Oil Tan leather oz weight, you will notice the Oil Tan Skins are thinner than what their Chart says.

I thought full thickness or fuller thickness Pigskin leather than is sold today would make a good Shot Pouch, as I mentioned in a different thread. Glad to hear you found that to be true from your years of experience.

Gus

 

[faste350]

I have been using 5-6 oz moose leather for my bags. its thick but really pliable and soft and the bag really conforms and shapes itself around your body. very happy with it.