Leather vs Lead Flint Wraps & Warranty

[montanadan]

Hey -Mike went to your web-site nice stuff.I was teasing Roundball this morning about not doing the lead test,did not know this post was going to get so serious.It is 103 degrees right now,to hot for this old fat body.5% humidity.Can you say hard cake fouling?Even with Swiss and stumpy's Moose Juice.I know I got off topic,just trying to get everyone to mellow just a bit...Hey mike do you use vent liners or not? could not tell by the pictures...Respectfully Montanadan

 

[roundball]

But telling other people that leather works better, when you haven't made the comparison test is simply irresponsible on this forum.

Actually, what he said, is "it works perfectly for me" (see above).

Of course I did...that's why he went on deep ignore the week he started here...always has an attitude, always tries to start a fight.

Flint "leather" is king, it's the real deal, always has been, always will be...IMHO of course!
:thumbsup:

 

[windsor]

Well said eagles.

 

[Richard Hare.]

Plus the fact that Col. P. Hawker who probably fired more sporting shots through his flintlocks than any of us has had hot dinners, always reccomended leather, as he stated;
"Lead strains the jaws of the cock...."

also, when The gun collection of Wm Constable (1721-1791) came on the market in untouched condition, each piece had the flint held very neatly in the jaws with a piece of punched yellow leather.
Because something is old doesn't always make it right, but in a case like this, where the sporting guns were used on flying targets, and swiftness and sureness of fire were required,
I think it is wise to bow to experience, an experience far greater than any of us will ever garner for ourselves.

These people used flintlocks and knew nothing else(apart from the odd 'wind gun' and novelty wheellock) so I would submit that it borders on arrogance to think that WE who shoot flintlocks On Occasion, know More about them than those who used them all the time, and with a degree of accuracy virtually unheard of today.

Paul,
Attacking the maker of the fine lock that Mike posted the pictures of does nothing for your cause, but merely emphasises this arrogance.
I am quite sure that if this lock was at all unsuitable, it would have been altered at some point in the last 250 years.....
Unless all its previous owners had injested so much lead from the flint wrap, that they were all too stupid to know anything was wrong!!!.......

Best wishes,
PB

 

A lot of fuss over nothin'. :shake:
Anybody's temples pulsin' and thumpin' yet? :rotf:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Hey -Mike went to your web-site nice stuff.I was teasing Roundball this morning about not doing the lead test,did not know this post was going to get so serious.It is 103 degrees right now,to hot for this old fat body.5% humidity.Can you say hard cake fouling?Even with Swiss and stumpy's Moose Juice.I know I got off topic,just trying to get everyone to mellow just a bit...Hey mike do you use vent liners or not? could not tell by the pictures...Respectfully Montanadan

Yes, I use exclusively Chambers White Lightnin' vent liners. I've biuilt 3 or 4 guns with just a drilled hole in the barrel because the customer insisted it be done that way. :shake:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Kit Ravenshear once told me that a vent liner was a repair item. :winking: I got near 100% ignition with 2F prime with the Bess he made me . . . but then the vent was near big enough I could clear it with my little finger. 7/64"!

I did try leathers in that musket, but even with the massive cross-drilled top jaw screw I had a hard time deforming the lead enough to hold the odd/humpy leads tightly. I am and remain a leather flint wrapper.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Just came across this in TM Hamiltons book COLONIAL FRONTIER GUNS.
This is an excerpt of a paragragh in reference to an archeological dig of a 18th century Type "G" trade gun.
"A gunspall was still between the jaws of the cock and some leather which cushioned it could still be seen."
Seems even the savages found leather to be adequet for holding a flint in place. :hmm:

 

[rmonday2]

I just finished reading this entire post; It looks like you all have created the all new[url] www.net/reality/show!![/url] :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
:shocked2: I'll never watch TV again :shocked2:
This is nuch better!!!!!!!

 

[roundball]

I just finished reading this entire post; It looks like you all have created the all new[url] www.net/reality/show!![/url] :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
:shocked2: I'll never watch TV again :shocked2:
This is nuch better!!!!!!!

Claude should charge admission and sell popcorn!

 

[brubincam]

we should get the MYTHBUSTERS to work on this.... :thumbsup:

 

[LSU TIGER]

A lot of fuss over nothin'. :shake:
Anybody's temples pulsin' and thumpin' yet? :rotf:

:thumbsup: :hatsoff: I agree!!!

 

[Runner]

When this came up a while back, I tested it in three locks I have here. If I remember right, one made little difference and the others had more sparks produced, more of those sparks in the pan, and more of them being the bouncing hot sparks we all want. The difference was startling on one lock. What swayed me most was the number of the sparks that ended up in the pan. My two have lead around the flints. If I get another gun, I will test with it and use what works best in it. In both of my present guns, the lead wrap produces more sparks, hotter larger sparks, and more of them are in the pan quicker that way also. None of my locks are expensive tuned locks. If there is documentation to prove that lead would not have been used in the timeframe you are trying to reproduce, I guess you should use leather at the 'vous. When I go out deer hunting with mine, it will be wrapped in whichever is the best in that gun.

 

[Relic shooter]

Who's Mark Roberts?

I havn't seen any attacks on Montanadan

I don't have this problem, never have as a matter of fact.

I'm used to getting 30 to 40 shots before having to knap when using a high quality lock.

I've taken apart alot of originals, and I'm not taking any more wood out than the guys that were building these guns 250 years ago.

If you've handled alot of original flintlocks with original springs, the first thing you'll notice is how stout the springs are....I wonder why that is? And again , who is this Mark you refer to?
I use full strength springs and leather flint wraps and have no trouble with "wash boarding or anything of that nature. I do have one gun that has alot of frizzen wear, but that has more to do with having thousands of shots thru it rather than anything due to what the flint is wraped in.

That's part of what's wrong with the world today. :shake:

Well, I guess that gives your opinions great weight.
I think maybe begining flint shooters should be aware of using both leather and lead and make up their own minds the pros and cons of both.
No reason to get so stired up over something as simple as this. :shake:

\ No wasboard effect here.....must have used lead.... :winking:

Shim to Get Correct Flint Strike Angle

Mike's post is only one so far to picture how leather provides easiest way to shim your flint to get the best strike angle on the frizzen.
We seldom find much uniformity in shape of flints we buy, proper set-up for your locks geometry is the trick !

 

[Grenadier1758]

This just shows us that not much has changed in the procedures to get the flint properly installed in the lock over the last 19 years.