Leave it to me to find something odd

[Flintlock1640]

I bought this musket from Czernys auction. If you have viewed their auctions you know they will give just a couple pictures so you buy without being 100% sure what you will get (unless you go visit Italy to see it in person). When I first got it, I thought it was a fake. I had never seen a barrel that was octagon to round and then back to octagon. It also bothered me that there was no ramrod channel. It didn't help any that there are obvious modern, and incorrect, restorations (butt plate, rear sling swivel, modern rear sight). The trigger guard is appropriate in style but has modern screws. I asked a few friends online that have had more experience and they told me that the oct-round-oct barrel was a cheap way to balance the barrel without the extra work/skill to swamp an octagon barrel. I was told that this was likely a commercial hunting musket (think stereotypical fox hunt on horse, not much reloading in that scenario) and this is the reason it does not have a ramrod channel. It probably never had a butt plate until the wrong one was added in modern times. Thought I would share since it is such an oddball.

 

[Flintlock1640]

More pictures

 

[Loyalist Dave]

(think stereotypical fox hunt on horse, not much reloading in that scenario)

OK, so if it's for use on horseback, and you load it once for one shot..., why the flip up sights?

It obviously has LLP Bess influences. I wonder if it wasn't some sort of drill or ceremonial musket, perhaps only meant for blanks (so no rammer). The engraved (well it looks engraved) butt plate is incongruous to the simplicity of the rest of the musket, which also makes me think it was made up of parts, but for less than an actual shooting scenario.

Later it became an early "wall-hanger"? Hence the very old style lock, but the industrial era screws in the trigger guard, with the guard looking like it was once more elaborate? The sights might have been added later for "effect" when it became said wall-hanger?

LD

 

[FlinterNick]

I bought this musket from Czernys auction. If you have viewed their auctions you know they will give just a couple pictures so you buy without being 100% sure what you will get (unless you go visit Italy to see it in person). When I first got it, I thought it was a fake. I had never seen a barrel that was octagon to round and then back to octagon. It also bothered me that there was no ramrod channel. It didn't help any that there are obvious modern, and incorrect, restorations (butt plate, rear sling swivel, modern rear sight). The trigger guard is appropriate in style but has modern screws. I asked a few friends online that have had more experience and they told me that the oct-round-oct barrel was a cheap way to balance the barrel without the extra work/skill to swamp an octagon barrel. I was told that this was likely a commercial hunting musket (think stereotypical fox hunt on horse, not much reloading in that scenario) and this is the reason it does not have a ramrod channel. It probably never had a butt plate until the wrong one was added in modern times. Thought I would share since it is such an oddball.

The found face lock looks very similar to an early Jaeger Lock by Jim Chambers.

It could also be a Dutch Lock due to the size, the barrel has some early Dutch features too.

Early American muskets were pretty much made with surplus parts scrounged up where ever they could find them as making Locks and barrels was forbidden by the British before the AWI.

 

[Flintlock1640]

As I said in my previous description, the trigger guard is an appropriate replacement (modern screws), the butt plate is modern and inappropriate, the sight is modern and wrong, as is the rear sling swivel. This does not remove the actual age of the stock, lock, and barrel together.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

MORE nice stuff from you - thanks!

On last photo, there looks to be a divot or depression on the underside of the lower forend? I wonder if someone ‘later on in life’ would slide a ramrod right down underneath that forward sling swivel. Any other handling marks on the bottom?

I would think you should be able to trace the lock with the ‘circled-B’ makers mark. With the banana shape and round face, I’d suggest is a late 1600s/early 1700s lock. I believe the French switch to flat faced in 1720 or so, just as an example.

 

[Mikekj]

OT...I notice you also have some collectible bricks in your patio. *******, Empire, etc.