Lee REAL bullet

[Rock Home Isle]

In my opinion drilling out the tip a Maxi-Ball is a last option of desperation if looking for an expanding conical. Many other better choices.

Maybe now...but not back in the day.

 

[ugly old guy]

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Hitting where you aim IS NOT THE SAME as a tight group. We hunted with an old guy who sighted in his rifle offhand at 50 yards with a 5 gallon bucket. When he hit it he said he was done, cause he hit what he aimed at. He never spent much time skinning game.

I agree. Hitting where you aim isn't necessarily a small grouping, or a large grouping, come to that.
However, I'll venture a guess that 1 (one) MOA at 100 yards which is what my CVA Kebfucky Rifle I had years ago was quite capable of, isn't precisely a large group size for "hitting where I aim.".
A one inch diameter broom stick at 100 yards was an "easy kill". Broom stick and front sight appeared the same width. Just had to line them up.
Consecutive 1 (one) inch or slightly less 5 shot groups at 100 yards isn't too shabby, either.
(using the factory non-adjustable iron sights)

I don't know if my eyes are good enough to duplicate that shooting now.
I didn't need bifocals back then.
Thanks to the Covid Pan(ic)demic, closure of all "non-essential" businesses, and Assisted Living and long term heathcare facilities lockdown over the last two years now, I havent had a chance to sight in (or work up the most accurate loads for) my T/C factory .54 caliber Hawken.

 

[shorthair]

TC said it pretty well themselves.
View attachment 66374

About Lee REAL's,
Wisconsin was dairy farm country and doesn't it look like the inspiration for the REAL was corrugated metal silos? No? Well OK, just never have gotten that suspicion out of my mind.

The molds were engineered to somewhat fit most barrels from all the different makers as well as feasible. That's why the base is more or less about bore size and the front end is hopefully groove size. Doesn't mean it will fit your barrel so you pays your money and takes your chances. To make a bullet fit your barrel you actually go through the process of tweaking things to get what you want (unless you luck out). But then again the Lee REAL molds might work right out of the box like the manufacturer planned.

I guess you could run them through a sizer/lubricator to get the base the right size but that would make the bands all the same size.

 

[Eterry]

The whole idea of the REAL is for the base to be undersized, to fit a variety of different barrels, and the top band to be oversized to provide a tight fit and accuracy.

The problem with the T/C conicals, IMHO, is they were a uniform size from one end to the other. If your bore was a tad bigger then the Maxi you had problems. Accuracy and bullet moving off the powder were 2 big ones.

The REAL was designed to overcome the flaws of the Maxi's, and I think they succeeded.

 

[Eterry]

I agree. Hitting where you aim isn't necessarily a small grouping, or a large grouping, come to that.
However, I'll venture a guess that 1 (one) MOA at 100 yards which is what my CVA Kebfucky Rifle I had years ago was quite capable of, isn't precisely a large group size for "hitting where I aim.".
A one inch diameter broom stick at 100 yards was an "easy kill". Broom stick and front sight appeared the same width. Just had to line them up.
Consecutive 1 (one) inch or slightly less 5 shot groups at 100 yards isn't too shabby, either.
(using the factory non-adjustable iron sights)

I don't know if my eyes are good enough to duplicate that shooting now.
I didn't need bifocals back then.
Thanks to the Covid Pan(ic)demic, closure of all "non-essential" businesses, and Assisted Living and long term heathcare facilities lockdown over the last two years now, I havent had a chance to sight in (or work up the most accurate loads for) my T/C factory .54 caliber Hawken.

I started with a CVA Kentucky rifle, its amazing how accurate those cheap rifles are.

 

[SDSmlf]

The problem with the T/C conicals, IMHO, is they were a uniform size from one end to the other. If your bore was a tad bigger then the Maxi you had problems.

At times it almost seems people just make stuff up or repeat things they read or hear on the internet until it becomes ‘fact’. I know initially TC marketed the Max-Ball as having it’s initial bands under bore size (easy to load) and the top band over bore size so as to engage the rifling, very similar to Lee REAL concept. Don’t know who started marketing the idea first or if they both copied the idea from an earlier design. Below is the blurb from a 1980 TC catalog. Maybe things change in later years and I am wrong about later TC Maxi-Balls, but I have multiple TC molds in multiple calibers from over the years (initial ones were purchased in late 1970s or early 1980s) that produce bullets with under bore size initial bands and an over bore size top bands. I doubt I am the only one that purchased these molds.

 

[William O.]

Maybe I should have said...If you have issues getting your REAL conical to shoot decent groups than an OVERPOWDER WAD is Essential. I figured if your rifle is shooting REAL bullets the way you want them you wouldn't change anything....but who knows.

Over 10 years ago I tried the 54 and 58 REAL's with dismal results, until someone, on here I think, said to use an OVERPOWDER WAD, to cut down on gas blow-by. I did, and groups tightened substantially. Now I recommend them to everyone.

Hitting where you aim IS NOT THE SAME as a tight group. We hunted with an old guy who sighted in his rifle offhand at 50 yards with a 5 gallon bucket. When he hit it he said he was done, cause he hit what he aimed at. He never spent much time skinning game.

I did a lot of testing using different types and weights of conicals using my .50 Great Plains Hunter barrel and no matter what I used, the addition of a lubed wad improved the grouping for all bullets. However. each group might differ from 6 inches to 1 inch depending on the style and weight that was used. For my rifle, only the Lee REAL 220 grain bullet gave me what I call "good" groups and with a lubed wad, gave me outstanding groups. Is is also dependent on your powder charge, which is a variable you should test separate and apart from bullet type and weight. For my rifle, which had been shortened due to having a bulge in it about 4 inch from the muzzle, 95 grains of 3f Goex, a wad and a 220 grain REAL bullet, that load combo would tear out the bullseye at 75 yards every time. For me, being able to put that conical within 1 inch of my point of aim, up to my self imposed hunting limit of 85 yards max., was "good enough".
As I've mentioned before, Lee no longer makes a 220 grain REAL mold but there are folks out there that have them. In my rifle with it's 1/32 twist (IIRC), the lighter the bullet the better the groups. Higher powder charges improved grouping as did the wad. It's important to realize that what works in one rifle may not work or give comparable accuracy in another rifle of the same caliber, twist and maker. It's more likely but it can still differ, thus the need for each person to do their own load workup.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I also have several of the early T/C and one Lyman mold for the T/C Maxi-ball. I have two of the base rings that are at the land to land diameter and the top ring is just about groove diameter.

My REAL mold cast bullets with a flat nose.

These bullets at 50 caliber will penetrate easily, making a hole or pair of holes that are generally more than large enough cause a lot of bleeding.

 

[mooman76]

I also noticed on at least one of my TC conicals the bottom band was smaller for better fit. I didn't say anything because I wanted to double check it first. I have at least 5 or 6 of them including one chapped like a full Wad Cutter. Kind of a Unique mould, not many made. RB on one side and flip over to get the WC conical.

 

[ugly old guy]

I started with a CVA Kentucky rifle, its amazing how accurate those cheap rifles are.

Agree. I entered a Rendezvous shooting match once using that rife.
(the radio commercial for the event said (quote) "You brave souls can enter our shootin' match!".)
I thinked to self "I can shoot a daRn broom stick at 100 yards with my rifle ... I may as well go. Might be fun."
No one beat me with the rifle. Some of them boys had customes that cost over a grand, even back then.

One guy said my CVA wasn't "historically accurate" or "period correct" because it only had a 33.5 inch barrel the brass nose cap screwed to the bottom of the muzzle, and "the lines aren't right." (like the normal spectator is going to know ...) My clothing and glasses wasn't HC/PC either ...

At any rate, like I typed, no one beat me with the rifle. I lost the daRn shooting match.
No one said anything about throwing a (10 inch blade) knife or a tomahawk, which turned out to be part of the so called "shootin' match". At the time, I'd never thrown (or owned) either in my life.
I traded my sling for a tomahawk on Suttler Row, so I did own a hawk when I went home.
Would be another 10 plus years before I had a suitable throwing knife.

That was the only rendezvous I been to or participated in ... so far ... There might be one chance in however many protons there are in the universe (squared) that I will go to another one.
For a variety of reasons, I doubt I would be welcome, anyway. (for one thing, I'm too old to be HC/PC. It was rare for someone back then to reach my age and still be above the grass.)

 

[Eterry]

At times it almost seems people just make stuff up or repeat things they read or hear on the internet until it becomes ‘fact’. I know initially TC marketed the Max-Ball as having it’s initial bands under bore size (easy to load) and the top band over bore size so as to engage the rifling, very similar to Lee REAL concept. Don’t know who started marketing the idea first or if they both copied the idea from an earlier design. Below is the blurb from a 1980 TC catalog. Maybe things change in later years and I am wrong about later TC Maxi-Balls, but I have multiple TC molds in multiple calibers from over the years (initial ones were purchased in late 1970s or early 1980s) that produce bullets with under bore size initial bands and an over bore size top bands. I doubt I am the only one that purchased these molds.

View attachment 66529

I have first hand experience with the maxi ball.

Best friend bought a TC 54, early rifle, very well made. It came with some RB and 2 yellow boxes of maxi's.

It shot lovely groups with prb, but the maxi slid down the bore like a minie ball. IIRC we shot 6 of them, they didn't stay in a dinner plate at 50 yards.

We didn't measure the bore or the Maxi's, and he melted the remainder for casting RB.

Granted I'm basing my earlier comments on one experience, but it's something I saw, not read about.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The Maxi-Balls and REAL bullets that I cast all engraved the top rings on loading. This is based on my experience with my 50 caliber T/C Hawken.

So if you want to use these bullets that engrave on loading, measure your bore so you know that your bullet will be performing as expected. Use pure lead. It doesn't take much tin to make the bullet so hard it is nearly impossible to load.

If you want to shoot a Minié bullet, you need to know your measurements so that bullet can be sized to the bore at 0.001 to 0.002" under the land to land diameter.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I wish I would have kept this bullet. It is a TC Maxi Hunter. There were several reasons I started to my paper patched bullets. This bullet was just one of them.

 

[nkbj]

One of the items on my to try list is running .54 solid bases through the .519 diameter push through sizer.
It works well for .533 diameter minies and I'm hopeful of usable results with solids.