Lee REAL bullets

[Trooper]

I have a 250 gr Lee REAL bullet mold for my .50 cal TC Hawken. I understand the twist rate to be 1 in 48 for the stock barrel. I've ordered a 320 gr REAL mold and I'm wondering which bullet is more accurate out of a twist rate such as mine. Any advice would certainly help, thanks in advance.
Trooper.

 

[CWKNOX]

I have a 250 gr Lee REAL bullet mold for my .50 cal TC Hawken. I understand the twist rate to be 1 in 48 for the stock barrel. I've ordered a 320 gr REAL mold and I'm wondering which bullet is more accurate out of a twist rate such as mine. Any advice would certainly help, thanks in advance.
Trooper.

i'm new to ML but have many years of shooting center fire in long range competition. every barrel is different just like fingerprints. both of those will have an accuracy with the right load development, one may shoot a tighter group. i have t/c hawken also and have only shot 3 prb out of it so far. i have ordered a 350 grain conical from accurate molds #50-350E. i enjoy the process of load development. want to see how accurate i can it to shoot at 600 yds.

 

[ETipp]

I have a 250 gr Lee REAL bullet mold for my .50 cal TC Hawken. I understand the twist rate to be 1 in 48 for the stock barrel. I've ordered a 320 gr REAL mold and I'm wondering which bullet is more accurate out of a twist rate such as mine. Any advice would certainly help, thanks in advance.
Trooper.

One thing to consider is TC's have shallow grooves. Many will not shoot round balls very accurately. They much prefer conicals of some sort. I personally have shot many Maxi Balls with pretty darn good accuracy out of Hawken and New Englander. I have also shot Hornady Great Plains bullets with good accuracy at 50 yards. I have not shot the REAL bullet so I cannot comment on that one. I do have some Maxi Hunters to try, as well as some PA conical bullets. I have also shot some of those unmentionable style bullets that provided good results at 100 yards.

Regardless of which bullet you choose, on some of them they are hard starting but eases up down the barrel a ways. So much so that some have been prone to moving off of the powder charge under certain circumstances. People claim if they are shooting such bullets that they will sometimes run the ramrod down the barrel to check to ascertain the bullet is still seated on the powder. Usually after transporting them on an ATV, falling down, clanging the rifle against something, or when they settle in their hunting spots.

Good luck.

 

[Trooper]

I'm thinking that since a 1-48 twist is supposed to handle conical and PRB equally as well, I'm wondering if anyone else has done the same test in their 1-48 twist barrel with the two different weights of REAL bullets since one is longer than the other. Which stabilizes better in a 1-48 twist?

 

[Trooper]

One thing to consider is TC's have shallow grooves. Many will not shoot round balls very accurately. They much prefer conicals of some sort. I personally have shot many Maxi Balls with pretty darn good accuracy out of Hawken and New Englander. I have also shot Hornady Great Plains bullets with good accuracy at 50 yards. I have not shot the REAL bullet so I cannot comment on that one. I do have some Maxi Hunters to try, as well as some PA conical bullets. I have also shot some of those unmentionable style bullets that provided good results at 100 yards.

That's a good starting point, knowing how the average 1-48 will handle Round balls. At 50m meters, I got a poor grouping with PRBs out of this barrel. (60 gr powder, .020 patch, and a .490 ball). Time to test out what groups these two REAL bullets will do.

 

[ETipp]

That's a good starting point, knowing how the average 1-48 will handle Round balls. At 50m meters, I got a poor grouping with PRBs out of this barrel. Time to test out what groups these two REAL bullets will do.

To be clear, some 1:48" twist provide good accuracy with round balls. Its the depth of the grooves that makes a big difference, so I am told. All I know is every TC I have ever had did not like round balls with the exception of one. That was an old .54 kit rifle from years past. For whatever reason, it was a round ball shooter. Wish I never got rid of that one.

The best RB shooters are usually 1:60" to 1:66" twist.

 

[Trooper]

To be clear, some 1:48" twist provide good accuracy with round balls. Its the depth of the grooves that makes a big difference, so I am told. All I know is every TC I have ever had did not like round balls with the exception of one. That was an old .54 kit rifle from years past. For whatever reason, it was a round ball shooter. Wish I never got rid of that one.

The best RB shooters are usually 1:60" to 1:66" twist.

All of our barrels have pretty shallow grooves as well. I just gave my stepson a .54 cal TC Renegade with a 1-66 twist GM barrel and I know that baby shoots very well with PRBs. My wife and I both have our 1-48 twist .50 cal TC Hawken rifles to play with, hence the testing.

 

[ETipp]

All of our barrels have pretty shallow grooves as well. I just gave my stepson a .54 cal TC Renegade with a 1-66 twist GM barrel and I know that baby shoots very well with PRBs. My wife and I both have our 1-48 twist .50 cal TC Hawken rifles to play with, hence the testing.

A .54 Renegade that shoots a RB well is a hunting machine. That's what I had that would shoot a RB well. A .54 Renegade with a GM 1:66 twist would be about as good as it gets IMO.

Good luck to you.

 

[dave951]

Try both and use what works best.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

You will probably find that the heavier bullets have more inherent accuracy at most muzzleloading ranges. Lighter bullets will have a better trajectory because you can shoot them faster, but the difference will be marginal.... in general. As mentioned above, you may find that your particular gun will prefer one weight over another. It may also like unmentionals with pistol bullets in them.

I shoot the heavier REAL bullet in my .50 caliber guns, if memory serves. Normally I do not attempt to put lube in the grease grooves, just put a bead of T/C Bore butter at the muzzle and then push the bullet down. My theory is that the oversized groove closest to the point will scrape the grease down and lube the bore as well as the grooves. Generally, I get good results with this procedure, but YMMV.

Generally, my powder charge is on the low side... never more than 80 grains and often much less depending upon what I am shooting. My 9" and 12" barrels would possibly gain me a few more FPS with a 70 grain charge, but would also dish out more recoils and a giant smoke cloud and muzzle flash. For those barrel lengths, I tend to go with pistol loads... so thirty to forty grains, depending upon caliber.

If you are going to cast your own bullets, that is a whole 'nother rabbit hole to go down. There are a number of threads about that going on now, and I will refer you to them. I do cast bullets, but am no expert on it... most of my bullets come out wrinkled and nothing I do seems to help. I plan to get a melting pot capable of higher heat.... and maybe get a lead thermometer. Might also experiment with different alloys. See how deep the rabbit hole can go?

 

[dylan84]

I am messing with them in my Renegade. Been messing around with the lock more than any accuracy testing so far. I have shot some but I need to find some pure lead to cast them out of. Casted out of wheel weights they seem to cast to dimension if you run your mold hotter than a fritter. (kind of like all Lee molds in my experience!). In theory with the shallow rifling of these barrels they should shoot well and load easy repeatedly. Once I get this thing shooting good I want to try minnies also as I have another 50 for PRB's. The Renegade was going to be my slug gun!

 

[chorizo]

@Dale Allen Raby My experience sort of parallels Dales in the above post. Heavier conicals do better, with a caveat. With the shallow rifling it seems that you cannot push them fast without accuracy issues. I have found with the deeper rifling like you find in CVA barrels, fast heavy conicals (around 100 grain loads at 1550-1650 fps mv) are much more accurate and even more so for the heavier bullet with a faster twist. I would also recommend an oversize over powder wad (54 for 50 and so on).

Mind you, these are stout loads and I am developing them for hunting.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have a 250 gr Lee REAL bullet mold for my .50 cal TC Hawken. I understand the twist rate to be 1 in 48 for the stock barrel. I've ordered a 320 gr REAL mold and I'm wondering which bullet is more accurate out of a twist rate such as mine. Any advice would certainly help, thanks in advance.
Trooper.

They will likely be equally accurate.
The REAL bullets were introduced at a time when the vast majority of factory rifles were 1:48. They were intended to make up for rifling issues when using solid base bullets. TC sold solid based bullets for their rifles that did quite well. The REAL bullets should be fine too.

IF you don't increase your powder charge, the heavier bullet will strike lower on the target, and this will become more obvious at farther distances. This is because it will launch at a slower muzzle velocity, and thus with more travel time will have more time for gravity to make it "drop". BUT for many shooters, this difference is very small due to shooting at distances closer than 100 yards. Many shooters will increase their load by about 10 grains when going to the heavier bullet.

250 grains is plenty, but if you like the 320 more, than use that..., you really won't know until you test them yourself. With a slightly heavier bullet and a bit more powder the recoil will be a bit higher, but for many shooters they don't notice this.

LD

 

[ETipp]

I am messing with them in my Renegade. Been messing around with the lock more than any accuracy testing so far. I have shot some but I need to find some pure lead to cast them out of. Casted out of wheel weights they seem to cast to dimension if you run your mold hotter than a fritter. (kind of like all Lee molds in my experience!). In theory with the shallow rifling of these barrels they should shoot well and load easy repeatedly. Once I get this thing shooting good I want to try minnies also as I have another 50 for PRB's. The Renegade was going to be my slug gun!

I do not recommend casting them out of WW type lead. Been there, done that. They are very hard to get down the barrel and are not consistent in weight and dia.

With that said, the last few Maxi Balls I cast a couple weeks ago was from pure lead. I melted down some Hornady Great Plains bullets which are pure lead. They turned out consistent in dia and fairly close in weight. They are easy to start down the barrel as well. Too easy to suit me, considering they go down too easy down the barrel and to the breech. It takes little pressure to seat them. I'm not sure as to if they will stay seated under certain circumstances. The same mold was used with WW lead and pure. That proves its the difference in lead that matters.

Also, the Maxi Balls cast out of pure lead are more accurate overall than those I cast from WW lead, especially at longer distances.

 

[dylan84]

I do not recommend casting them out of WW type lead. Been there, done that. They are very hard to get down the barrel and are not consistent in weight and dia.

With that said, the last few Maxi Balls I cast a couple weeks ago was from pure lead. I melted down some Hornady Great Plains bullets which are pure lead. They turned out consistent in dia and fairly close in weight. They are easy to start down the barrel as well. Too easy to suit me, considering they go down too easy down the barrel and to the breech. It takes little pressure to seat them. I'm not sure as to if they will stay seated under certain circumstances. The same mold was used with WW lead and pure. That proves its the difference in lead that matters.

Also, the Maxi Balls cast out of pure lead are more accurate overall than those I cast from WW lead, especially at longer distances.

I think I finally have source for pure lead in my area that isn't $2 plus per pound. I think gold is less rare than pure lead around these parts! lol

 

[Idaho Ron]

I think I finally have source for pure lead in my area that isn't $2 plus per pound. I think gold is less rare than pure lead around these parts! lol

I would drop ingots onto concrete and listed for a thud. If it rings its not soft lead.

 

[Treetop]

I'm thinking that since a 1-48 twist is supposed to handle conical and PRB equally as well, I'm wondering if anyone else has done the same test in their 1-48 twist barrel with the two different weights of REAL bullets since one is longer than the other. Which stabilizes better in a 1-48 twist?

As stated, it shoots both projectiles equally. The twist rate & depth of cut should be punched out pending what projectile you plan on shooting long term. I had Mr. Hoyt punch my TC and lined for round ball, 1:60 twist. I'd determine what I plan on feeding it & line the barrel accordingly.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I have a 250 gr Lee REAL bullet mold for my .50 cal TC Hawken. I understand the twist rate to be 1 in 48 for the stock barrel. I've ordered a 320 gr REAL mold and I'm wondering which bullet is more accurate out of a twist rate such as mine. Any advice would certainly help, thanks in advance.
Trooper.

I have a investarms hawken .58 cal 1x48 twist and it shoots the REAL bullet with great accuracy. cant remember th weight of the bullet

 

[smokepolehall]

I have several Lee REAL molds in diff calibers. This is what i have had in exp. with them. The lighter they are faster n easier they are to get good groups. REALS don't like to be pushed hard, the lead will strip n jump the lands because of the shallow rings. Heavier does good with lower loads n of course hits hard. I have 200 gr .45, 320 in .50 n a 300 gr in a .54. All of those weights used on tick toters out to 125 yds are killers

 

[SwanShot]

I'm thinking that since a 1-48 twist is supposed to handle conical and PRB equally as well, I'm wondering if anyone else has done the same test in their 1-48 twist barrel with the two different weights of REAL bullets since one is longer than the other. Which stabilizes better in a 1-48 twist?

I did in my renegade. 54. It favored the lighter real if I used an over powder wad. No wad and accuracy was poor.