Length of Pull (lop)

[jlatz]

For good shotgun use the lop can be important, as well as pitch, drop and cast. One will shoot better with a shotgun that fits.

 

[TexiKan]

I don't think many of us have had much experience with the impact of the different lengths of pull simply because we tend to have guns with about the same measurements. Back in the '70's, I joined our muzzleloading club and the best shot was one who mentioned how his shorter length of pull was an advantage in keeping the gun steady. Thus I became more aware of that issue.

Another member decided to order a custom built rifle and he said he was asked all kinds of questions by the maker, including his preferred LOP. When the rifle arrived, it looked great but my friend found it to be very uncomfortable to hold while shooting. He rarely used it even though he told the maker what LOP to use.

One thing for sure for me, if it is too long,the rifle becomes front end heavy because I have to extend my arms out more.

 

[oldwood]

Length of pull on the rifles I've built has mostly been based on average length of pull , 13" . Smaller person , take away 1/4" , or 1/2" , especially if the person uses the gun in cold weather w/thick clothing. If the person is exceptionally tall , w/ long arms 13 1/2" seems to work, unless a customer requests a longer LOP. Always have an unclaimed rifle or so for a person to shoulder to see how it fits before a build begins.
In the mid 1980's , I had the opportunity to examine a number of remarkable original rifles . LOP was one of the first observation made. One conclusion I came to was if an original rifle had an extremely long LOP , it was in better physical condition than a gun with an average LOP. Conclusion , rifles w/ an excessive long LOP were not used as much as shorter guns. Why , if an average sized person had a choice the shorter stocked rifle would be the choice , and take the daily abuse, the longer one would not. This is really unscientific , but had an occasion to examine 2 different J.P. Beck originals. One had a LOP of 13 1/4". It's condition was poor to average , as expected for a heavily used old original. However,the second rifle was in very good condition for a rifle that old. The LOP was 14 5/8". Obviously , this rifle wouldn't fit anyone except a giant. It's condition , plus some other rifles I've seen with exceptionally lenghty LOP's showing less wear , made me reevaluate my thinking in regard to LOP. Ie. , A gun with an LOP most correct for the owner , will be more used. If the shoe fits better ,it will be worn more. Really off in the weeds , this time..............oldwood

 

[hanshi]

While I can manage with 13.5" or slightly more, all mine are either 13" or 12.5". The 12.5" is ideal for me.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, short lengths of pull can be a advantage when we are shooting traditional longrifles.
By making the LOP shorter, it basically moves the center of gravity of the gun closer to your shoulder and body mass. That can noticeably reduce the "muzzle heaviness" of long barreled guns.

The only negative I can think of for a gun with a short LOP is, it places your face and nose closer to the hand that is grasping the wrist of the gun.
If you forget this is happening, you might poke yourself in the nose.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Out of 25 posts, the overwhelming majority of people who posted favor an LOP between 12-1/2" and 13-1/2", yet the "standard" for production and semi-production muzzleloaders still seems to be 14", with some even longer.

Do you think people in the firearms manufacturing industry read forums like these? If they made a Lyman GPR Signature rifle with a 13" or even a 13-1/2" LOP, I would have one in the cabinet right now. However, there's no way I would pay that much for a rifle that doesn't fit me, regardless of how good it looks or how well it shoots.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Out of 25 posts, the overwhelming majority of people who posted favor an LOP between 12-1/2" and 13-1/2", yet the "standard" for production and semi-production muzzleloaders still seems to be 14", with some even longer.

Do you think people in the firearms manufacturing industry read forums like these? If they made a Lyman GPR Signature rifle with a 13" or even a 13-1/2" LOP, I would have one in the cabinet right now. However, there's no way I would pay that much for a rifle that doesn't fit me, regardless of how good it looks or how well it shoots.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

As usual, incredible post!! So very true.

 

[oldwood]

I can't tell you how many buttplates , I have adjusted to fit folks. In the 1950's , my father shortened many butt stocks. Seems like long stocks were the norm. I watched how he did it , and learned how.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

If your 6'6" tall and try to shoot a high recoiling rifle or shotgun with too short of length of pull you will understand. I have busted my nose wide open a few times with my thump on the stock. All my custom rifles are built with a 14.25 LOP which is short for me still but I can craddle the gun in better and get better accuracy shooting offhand. This allows enough distance im not punching myself in the face while shooting.

 

[oldwood]

in an 1800 era museum near Blenerhasset Island on the Ohio River , I saw an original J.P. Beck long rifle with a lop of 14 + "..Person it was made for in about 1786 , or so , musta been a giant.. I asked the ladys there , if the possibly $100,000+ antique rifle was left there at night? They were clueless. I explained what the antique rifle was , and they acted as if it was just some old flea mkt. find. That was back in 1990 , bet it's not there now.

 

[Rob M.]

Some really good answers on this post . Standard when making a NW gun for saling later is 13.5" L.O.P. for me . It fits the vast majority but ....LOP is indeed a very personal thing . I'm 5'9 and 13.5 is fine in summer time but I like just slightly under that for my personal guns ... slightly too short is fine but too long is uncomfortable and you can get the buttstock caught in your coat when in a hurry to shoulder your gun or rifle in the winter time . One reason , if I get the opportunity , I like to get a person to put a coat on before I measure their LOP and then have them try a couple long gums with different LOP to see what they like , prefer . Most folks that have been shootin for a time already know what their favorite LOP is but ...sometimes youll be surprised . Some folks dont know and you got have em try a few . One fella kept telling me he wanted a 14.5 " LOP !! Someone had told him this non sense .I knew this was wrong , a new shooter , but he was adamant and I didnt want to agrue with him . He was shorter than me ....so I went on with the build and I asked him questions and had him measure his LOP on his arm ....but , finally I asked him to.plz let me make his gun 13.5 " LOP and explained myself .He agreed and later , after getting the gun , thanked me for talking him into that ! Greatest thing is to try different firearms and see which one you like the best, LOP wise , and then measure it ...

 

[sheriff john]

Not mentioned so far is that some rifles with crescent buttplates were designed so that shooting standing offhand, the butt was on the upper arm, not the shoulder, and the supporting arm resting against the body with the elbow locked in just above the hip bone. If you try this, you find you are actually firing across the chest and it feels (to me) a more steady position.

I'm far from an expert, certainly won't argue, but mounted thusly the longer length of pull and the smaller crescent buttplates make sense for offhand.

Now ..for prone and those fancy lay-on-your back-shooting-past-your-feet "Wimbledon" old-timey long distance shooters? Don't know. 3-position competitors - your thoughts?

 

[Brokennock]

I wonder if the answers the o.p. is getting are worth the 3 year wait


Oh, bever mind,,,,, he isn’t getting them...... He hasn't been on here since May of 2023

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have posed this before; I made a simple try stock to determine my LOP and drop and transferred these measurements to every gun I built, the difference is amazing over a store-bought factory gun.

Looks silly but it works, it has fake sights on it. Once properly adjusted you can close your eyes and shoulder the stock, open your eyes and the sights will be in perfect alignment.

I build my rifles with 1/4" of cast off as well.