Let’s talk about the F’s

[Smokybob]

Good evening everyone. I am slightly confused about what powder to use in my Armi Sport 1853 3 band Enfield. It just had a progressive depth barely installed and I recently ordered a nice size batch of FFG and FFFg powder. Now here’s the skinny, I am going to be shooting .568 paper patched Pritchett bullets out of this rifle musket and I don’t know where to start as far as grain size. I have read extensively that the NSSA dudes usually shoot FFFg. Also the manual and manufacturer recommend FFg. Just the other day Brett Gibbons did a fireside chat and he discussed that he uses Fg powder in his muskets! Someone help me please.

 

[Brazos John]

Well, the only one left is FFFFg, but that's for priming pans, so don't use it.
I hope that clears the smoke...

 

[TreeMan]

Either will work fine. Your rifle will decide which it likes better by its group sizes.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

A lot of the NSSA shooters like the 3Fg better as they seem to get less ash residue, all other things being equal.

LD

 

[hapEcat]

The kernel size is something you'll have to figure out for yourself, "trial & error". Your rifle will let you know what it likes best, but I would imagine that you'll probably find 2F to produce the better results.
There's an old rule of thumb that has .50cals and above use 2F, and below using 3F.
I shoot a TC Renegade .54cal with PRB, that performs best with ~60gr of 3F.
Best advice is use consistent loading technique, start low ~55gr and work up in 5gr increments, then start over with the other powder.

 

[Hawk54]

I only ever shot 2F out of my Euro Arms 1853 Enfield.

 

[Smokybob]

I only ever shot 2F out of my Euro Arms 1853 Enfield.

I tried some Pyrodex RS but the results were horrible. Like shotgun pattern at 50 yards bad. I think I will start with FF first and move on from there.

 

[Hawk54]

I tried some Pyrodex RS but the results were horrible. Like shotgun pattern at 50 yards bad. I think I will start with FF first and move on from there.

I shot Dupont and then Goex only. I had to play around with the bullets. But after I got the charge and bullet figured out it was deadly out to 100 yards.

 

[Smokybob]

I just picked up a bunch of the Graf label powder. I haven’t shot it yet.

 

[Hawk54]

I just picked up a bunch of the Graf label powder. I haven’t shot it yet.

I have a bunch of Goex. Goex is supposed to be back in business next year. I shoot Goex in everything.

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

I've always used FF in my 50 cal Renegade, going back over 25 years. Basically because it is what the manual called for. But since joining this forum and learning more here, I'm starting to want to try FFF. Think maybe I'll grab a pound or two soon.

 

[necchi]

I have read extensively,,

It is a quandary, isn't it?
It just seem's that most of us have found 3F is a bit more versatile as common use today, the finer grain is a little easier to get into a fire channel to provide proper ignition and lower charges of 3f preform as well as recommended loads of 2f on paper and with terminal ballistics.
A lot of it depends on the desired function of the rifle, What do you want to use it for?
I don't think I'd want 1f on a deer hunt, but I wouldn't be afraid to use it for a formal paper shoot.
Personal experience? 2f was the "go to" for many years with lot's of rifles, then I learned 3f has subtle changes in load and bore condition that's been a little easier to deal with. But the rifles performance is different with powder changes. For me I found the lighter "hot" loads preformed well.
It's all a learning curve.
Good luck with your experiments.

 

[Smokybob]

Thank you for everyone’s input. There is no doubt that I need to put the time in at the range and figure this out. I will grab pics and data the next time I get to the range and report back here.

 

[dave951]

Good evening everyone. I am slightly confused about what powder to use in my Armi Sport 1853 3 band Enfield. It just had a progressive depth barely installed and I recently ordered a nice size batch of FFG and FFFg powder. Now here’s the skinny, I am going to be shooting .568 paper patched Pritchett bullets out of this rifle musket and I don’t know where to start as far as grain size. I have read extensively that the NSSA dudes usually shoot FFFg. Also the manual and manufacturer recommend FFg. Just the other day Brett Gibbons did a fireside chat and he discussed that he uses Fg powder in his muskets! Someone help me please.

I'm in the N-SSA and have experimented with both 2f and 3f in muskets. Of the two, accuracy was a bit better with 3f. Fouling was less and maybe that's why accuracy was better. If you had the time to get into the weeds and talk to N-SSA guys, you'll find some use 2f and many use 3f. We experiment to see what works best in our guns and many times, that's 3f. Side benefit to using 3f is you can cut charge levels and save powder.

 

[ResearchPress]

Good evening everyone. I am slightly confused about what powder to use in my Armi Sport 1853 3 band Enfield….

What are your shooting intentions? 50/100 yards light charges of FFFg seem a popular choice. If you’re doing a lot of shooting in limited time at short range, it may also help with fouling control. I don’t shoot much short range these days - this weekend is 200 yard prone and offhand and 300 yards prone. May and June I have matches at 500 and 600 yards respectively. These are ‘slow fire’ matches and the only support permitted is the military two point sling. I use Swiss No. 4 (1.5Fg) - the original service powder granulation was closer to Fg, but with a wider spread of granulation and some coarser elements.

There’s no ‘one-size-fits-all’ - it really depends on what sort of shooting you want to do, whether you want to clean between shots, shoot long strings without cleaning, or if you are trying to be historically correct.

David

 

[Packrat]

I used 60 Grains of 3 F in my 1853 Parker Hale with gain twist, 1" groups from a rest at 50 yds

 

[Smokybob]

What are your shooting intentions? 50/100 yards light charges of FFFg seem a popular choice. If you’re doing a lot of shooting in limited time at short range, it may also help with fouling control. I don’t shoot much short range these days - this weekend is 200 yard prone and offhand and 300 yards prone. May and June I have matches at 500 and 600 yards respectively. These are ‘slow fire’ matches and the only support permitted is the military two point sling. I use Swiss No. 4 (1.5Fg) - the original service powder granulation was closer to Fg, but with a wider spread of granulation and some coarser elements.

There’s no ‘one-size-fits-all’ - it really depends on what sort of shooting you want to do, whether you want to clean between shots, shoot long things without cleaning, or if you are trying to be historically correct.

David

At this point I need to sight in the new barrel I just had put on by Dan Whitacre, and work my load development for the Pritchett bullet. I am trying to achieve close historical accuracy for a Confederate service load. My range goes out to 200 yards, other than that I would like to take my Enfield out for the upcoming Whitetail Deer season. I purchased some .568 paper patched Pritchetts from papercartridges.com until I can mold my own this is what I am shooting. I haven’t tried any sized Burton Balls yet.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

1Fg= Muskets
2Fg= Rifle
3Fg= Pistol
4Fg= Prime

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

If you all will indulge me an ignorant question...

I am experienced handloader of metallic cartridges with smokeless powder. My question pertaining to this subject is: when going to the finer powder, I see it consistently stated that you lower your charge weight. Is the relationship between different F rating powders similar or the same as that of smokeless powders with different burn rates? What im getting at is, with smokeless when one uses a faster burning powder than what is considered "ideal" you have a faster pressure spike and therefore while it makes for economical "plinking" ammo, you do lose some velocity potential compared to the more ideal powder. Does this principle carry over to black powder? Not that velocity is my tunnel vision goal here, just looking to learn more about this subject. I've always run FF because that is what was recommended in my owners manual and all I had to go by for many years. I'm considering getting some FFF to try and not sure if I should expect the same velocity I can get with FF or if that would be an indicator of over loading. Just looking for some guidelines from more experienced hands on the subject.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I’ll have to try blaming my powder next time I shoot crappy.