Lets Not Over Complicate the Issue

[Southron129]

Everyone is trying to over complicate the issue. It is real simple:

1. Because your Pedersoli has "Constant Depth Rifling" you MUST HAVE a Minie Ball that is NO SMALLER then .0002" UNDER your bore diameter.

Don't blame it on the barrel...Pedersoli makes the "Best Barrels in the Business." Their Gibbs Rifles often win the 1,000 Yard Muzzleloading shoots at Oak Ridge.

2. You need to use Minie Balls made out of "Pure Lead." Now, lead has a tendency to "work soften" which can fool you.

One time I purchased some lead sheeting at a scrap yard that I could easily indent with my thumb nail.

However, when I cast that sheeting up into Minie Balls, they were so hard that they shot keyholes in the target.

I.E. The lead was originally "hard" but when it had been run through the machinery that flattened it out into lead sheeting...it became "soft" lead. But when I melted it and cast it into Minie Balls, it reverted to its former "hard" lead state!

What you will probably find, using Minie Balls of soft lead that are .0002" under your bore diameter is that you will find your best, tightest groups will be between 45 and 55 Grains of REAL BLACK POWDER.

The ONLY thing going North of 65-70 Grains of black powder is that you will deform the skirt on your Minie Ball, causing your bullets to take interesting, inaccurate trajectories.

Use REAL BLACK POWDER. That is waht your rifle-musket was designed to use!!!

I had a friend that gave me 5 pounds of one of those "Replica Black Powders" and I found a use for it: Fertilizing my tomato patch!

So, try Real Black Powder and you will be pleased I am sure.

Good Luck!!!

 

[jamesthomas]

I for one don't believe in the theory that Lead can go from hard to soft to hard again. I just melted down about 350 Lbs. of Lead X-ray sheeting and it is very soft lead.

 

[longcruise]

You probably did not intend it, but you typed 2/10000"!

 

[Southron129]

Then, in your case, those 350 pounds of lead were "Soft" Lead before that particular lot of lead was made into sheeting and therefore, still "Soft" lead when the lead were cast into bullets.

The "work softening" characteristic of hard lead is a well known physical characteristic of lead. I suggest you talk with some Engineers that work at a lead foundry or lead smelting operation.

 

[Alden]

Was everyone, anyone, overcomplicating these? I mean other than the 10,000th-inch machining perhaps...

 

[Rifleman1776]

One time I purchased some lead sheeting at a scrap yard that I could easily indent with my thumb nail.

However, when I cast that sheeting up into Minie Balls, they were so hard that they shot keyholes in the target.

I.E. The lead was originally "hard" but when it had been run through the machinery that flattened it out into lead sheeting...it became "soft" lead. But when I melted it and cast it into Minie Balls, it reverted to its former "hard" lead state!

Can this really happen? :idunno: Methinks we need a real metalurgist type to chime in here.

 

[jamesthomas]

Then, in your case, those 350 pounds of lead were "Soft" Lead before that particular lot of lead was made into sheeting and therefore, still "Soft" lead when the lead were cast into bullets.

The "work softening" characteristic of hard lead is a well known physical characteristic of lead. I suggest you talk with some Engineers that work at a lead foundry or lead smelting operation.

Have YOU talked to any Engineers at a Lead Foundry? If so, how did they say that hard lead can become soft then hard again? I still say you can't change the properties of lead unless you add something to it ( Like Tin or Antimony).

 

[varsity07840]

Southron said:
One time I purchased some lead sheeting at a scrap yard that I could easily indent with my thumb nail.

However, when I cast that sheeting up into Minie Balls, they were so hard that they shot keyholes in the target.

I.E. The lead was originally "hard" but when it had been run through the machinery that flattened it out into lead sheeting...it became "soft" lead. But when I melted it and cast it into Minie Balls, it reverted to its former "hard" lead state!

I had the same problem with lead sheet.

Duane

 

[FishDFly]

Where is Zonie, he has knowledge?

 

[Dean2]

One time I purchased some lead sheeting at a scrap yard that I could easily indent with my thumb nail.

However, when I cast that sheeting up into Minie Balls, they were so hard that they shot keyholes in the target.

I.E. The lead was originally "hard" but when it had been run through the machinery that flattened it out into lead sheeting...it became "soft" lead. But when I melted it and cast it into Minie Balls, it reverted to its former "hard" lead state!

Can this really happen? :idunno: Methinks we need a real metalurgist type to chime in here.

No, this does not really happen. This is not possible with pure lead. Work Hardening of steel occurs when it is worked cold, this does not occur permanently in pure lead (any work hardening that occurs will disappear within 2 weeks or when temp gets above 70 degrees), nor does pure lead get softer from being worked. Also, unlike steel, which can be hardened or softened by heating, depending on how fast it is cooled, heating lead does not cause it to permanently harden or soften.

Lead is only hardened by the addition of other materials.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

...................
Lead is only hardened by the addition of other materials.

Absolutely correct. I am not a metallurgist nor "some Engineers that work at a lead foundry" but in almost 50 years of casting lead into muzzleloading projectiles I have never found any pure lead that became hard when cast. That only happens when the "lead" has other materials added to give it characteristics needed for that alloy's intended purpose. Pure lead stays soft no matter how many times it is heated and cast - it is what it is.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Sounds Way too Overcomplicated, to me. When you need to involve opinions from the "experts" it ceases being simple.

In my 40+ years of casting minie balls, I've never had any problems with the hardness of my soft lead affecting the performance of the minie's skirt or any other accuracy woes.

I think I'll continue my established casting routines, and leave the overthinking to those who need something new to worry on.

 

[Zonie]

When Southron129 was talking about his experience with the work softened lead, I think he was talking about a lead alloy, not pure soft lead.

Doing a little digging on the web, I found this quote:

"
Of all the elements used in lead alloys, only Ca and Te impart added strength under plastic deformation. Because of a low re-crystallization temperature, lead, when alloyed with other elements, softens immediately during rolling, extrusion, drawing, and other types of processing carried out at room temperature. "
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Lead+Alloy

This would seem to indicate the "as cast" condition of the alloys mentioned is harder (less ductile) than it is after the lead is cold worked.

 

[fleener]

little doubt that Pedersoli can make a great shooting rifle. In fact this year a Pedersoli won at Oak Ridge this year, but I think if my memory serves correct it is not a Pedersoli barrel anymore in his rifle. This year at Oak Ridge there were 3 original rifles in the top 5.

I just got done casting around 200 530 grain bullets that are fairly hard at 20/1 ratio to be shot at the world match from 300 to 1,000 yards.

you don't have to have a pure lead soft bullet to get it to expand into the rifling

Fleener

 

[gearheart]

When you buy lead from a scrap yard only God knows what you actually bought. The owner of the scrap yard hasn't a clue, nor does the guy who brought it in for sale. If it displays the characteristics that you have observed then it is probably not pure lead. That is the chance we all take. I buy scrap lead too.