Lets see some percussion revolvers!

[springfield art]

Thanks Sourdough, I figured if anyone knew it would be you. Do you or anyone know the origins of the brass frame revolver mythology in those early Italian Westerns ? Why brass ?

The early budget-priced guns were simply cheaper to make back in the day; we all now know that the brass ones don't hold up to lots of shooting as well as the steel. There may have been a "cool" look factor as well.

 

[springfield art]

1860 Army made by ASM in 1990 and sold by CVA, this is one of the good ASM revolvers, so far

I have an ASM made about the same time frame. Nice gun, has the silver plate trigger guard.

 

[sourdough]

Do you or anyone know the origins of the brass frame revolver mythology in those early Italian Westerns ? Why brass ?

After I read your question, I watched "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" for a bit this morning and fast-forwarded to the segment popularly referred to as "Tuco In The Gun Shop". Not one brasser there, but a whole lot of special cartridge conversion guns. Tuco checks out quite a few Colt revolvers (Navies) and never removes a wedge when swapping parts.

The only thing that really springs to mind is the series "Hell On Wheels" where the main character Cullen Bohannon (Anson Mount), a Confederate War veteran, carries a Griswold & Gunnison. IIRC, in the first episode he actually carries a replica G&G (probably a Pietta) but afterward the revolver is substituted by a brass framed 1860 Army .44. Go figure.

I may be anal about this, but I look for somewhat historical accuracy when watching movies/TV series. To my surprise, when watching old "Gunsmoke" reruns, whomever was the set armorer actually portrayed realistic guns in the story line many times, and I enjoyed that. This is a screenshot of a Merwin & Hulbert at the beginning of one Gunsmoke show:

As the M&H is a cartridge revolver, discussion of it is verboten on this forum.

I think the idea of brass framed C&B revolvers are almost universally ingrained in the minds of many folks not well-versed about the Confederacy as being Confederate, and that is not far off the mark. The Union (to include the industrial Northern States prior to the ACW) never manufactured them. It does not help that Pietta and DGW continually label brassers of any type (1851 Navy brass .44, et al) with some sort of Confederate or "Reb" connotation. DGW has historically been at fault for this, and in the past has even advertised a DGW marked Pietta 1851 Navy .36 squareback as a "London" model. Go figure.

I just chalk it up to advertising/marketing, but it does not do a thing for the newcomer buyer insofar as being historical, many of whom believe everything they read on the Internet.

Regards,

Jim

 

[springfield art]

My first "repro" revolver was a Centaure, bought 1962 from Roberts' gunshop in St Martins Lane, London (just down from Trafalgar Square). Extremely well made, almost as good as an original. What "niggles" me is that the perceived knowledge is that Val Forgett started it all, with Italian-made revolvers .. it was (is?) even in Fadala's book. I wish that I stilll had it . Still, I replaced it some time later with an original "Hartford-London" Navy #127 which I still have and use when I give talks comparing American and US revolvers -- the Brit one that I use is the 38-bore (.50cal) M1851 Adams that I have shown on this forum.

Wasn't he the first to actually market them, though? BTW, I recall about 1960 or 61 sending a dollar for a little folder brochure advertising the early replicas...from Navy Arms, it was in northern New Jersey, I think Union City...

 

[eggwelder]

My Dragoon. 1st Model, 2nd Gen. never fired. Will be rectifying that soon. Alledged to be about 40 years old. Heavy and gorgeous...

 

[jonathan butcher]

Great looking Dragoon! I love the Dragoon almost as much as I love the 1860 Army. This is mine;

My Dragoon. 1st Model, 2nd Gen. never fired. Will be rectifying that soon. Alledged to be about 40 years old. Heavy and gorgeous...View attachment 68348View attachment 68349

 

[Throwdown58]

FYI I got a call from Taylors this morning that some of my backordered engraved 58s came in. So if you have been wanting stuff and all you see is sold out sold out sold out, you don't have to pay the exorbitant prices. The guns are still trickling in while those Italiano fools are still willing to take our worthless dollars for their beautiful handmade firearms. Get em before the party ends.

 

[eggwelder]

Great looking Dragoon! I love the Dragoon almost as much as I love the 1860 Army. This is mine;

The dragoon is the first of many i think for me. Sadly, the reproductions are considered restricted firearms and must be registered here in Canada, whereas fireable originals are considered antiques, not firearms (unless used in a crime), fired anywhere non restricted and non registered firearms may legally be discharged and you require no licensing to own one. You must only be +18 yrs.

 

[springfield art]

My Dragoon. 1st Model, 2nd Gen. never fired. Will be rectifying that soon. Alledged to be about 40 years old. Heavy and gorgeous...View attachment 68348View attachment 68349

Nice. Of course the date mfg. code in on it and there's charts to "decode", (Not decoder-rings from the cereal box!) It's a letter code like CD or similar. I had one of these, too heavy for my taste, but they are handsome!

 

[springfield art]

Great looking Dragoon! I love the Dragoon almost as much as I love the 1860 Army. This is mine;

Great photo!

 

[springfield art]

FYI I got a call from Taylors this morning that some of my backordered engraved 58s came in. So if you have been wanting stuff and all you see is sold out sold out sold out, you don't have to pay the exorbitant prices. The guns are still trickling in while those Italiano fools are still willing to take our worthless dollars for their beautiful handmade firearms. Get em before the party ends.

You have a good point. One "executive order" and whole industries could cease to exist. How right you are!

 

[eggwelder]

Nice. Of course the date mfg. code in on it and there's charts to "decode", (Not decoder-rings from the cereal box!) It's a letter code like CD or similar. I had one of these, too heavy for my taste, but they are handsome!

Do colts have the date code? This one is not Italian made. I`lol look again for more markings but it`s pretty devoid of marks

 

[Throwdown58]

You have a good point. One "executive order" and whole industries could cease to exist. How right you are!

Well that's a whole other thing. I don't think they could get away with that really, but as a recent poster here noted, these are guns in canada and you have to register them. So there is that. I was talking about what all the trillions in stimi is going to do to purchasing power of the dollar. The world hasn't reacted yet, but they will. You can't just print currency and give it away without repercussions.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Buy more cappers and send the lead down range, shoot on, repercussions is that not another name for recoil from a cap and ball pistola amigo. Come on joe send the pesos, there guns to be bought.

 

[springfield art]

Do colts have the date code? This one is not Italian made. I`lol look again for more markings but it`s pretty devoid of marks

Oh, if yours is one of the Colt marked ones, the Blackpowder Series, it may not. There's a Colt marked Black Powder Series at my LGS right now for $800.! I wish I'd bought them back in the day. They were made in Italy but imported and finished here; there's a whole book about them, I'm sure you know.

 

[springfield art]

Well that's a whole other thing. I don't think they could get away with that really, but as a recent poster here noted, these are guns in canada and you have to register them. So there is that. I was talking about what all the trillions in stimi is going to do to purchasing power of the dollar. The world hasn't reacted yet, but they will. You can't just print currency and give it away without repercussions.

They could get away with pretty much anything; stroke of pen put thousands of people out of work in the big pipeline overnight. Control of White House & both houses of Congress has great power.

 

[eggwelder]

Oh, if yours is one of the Colt marked ones, the Blackpowder Series, it may not. There's a Colt marked Black Powder Series at my LGS right now for $800.! I wish I'd bought them back in the day. They were made in Italy but imported and finished here; there's a whole book about them, I'm sure you know.

I think it`s a Black powder series. On the base of the grip it is marked 1908. Top of the barrel says Sam Colt Address NYC or similar. serial 36XXX. side of frame says Colt patent. I know not very much about cap and ball revolvers other than the theory and how they work. Never fired one, don`t know which Italian ones are better than others, know that shootable antiques are super expensive. But gonna find out what i don`t know.
$800 US? I paid maybe $400 US shipped. Our dollar sucks right now

 

[sourdough]

If you folks want a detailed treatise about the various 20th Century Colt revolvers (2nd Gen, 3rd Gen, Blackpowder series), see if Eric has any copies left. Upon first glance, with its very good photos, it might be mistaken for a coffee table book, but he provides all sorts of tables and listings. I have a copy I bought a few months ago, and though I don't collect them, it is well worth the read. I paid $62 shipped for the book and it is well worth the historical knowledge contained therein. He has a pronounced love for them and goes on to compare them to modern Italian replicas (primarily Uberti, which was the source for Colt's raw parts with these guns, even though they were finished and assembled by Colt or its licensees). The Colt revolvers are very good externally, but Colt (and licensees) did not pay particular attention to the finishing of the internals. IMO, it was all about bling with the many variations produced.

Your call.

Regards,

Jim

New Colt Blackpowder Revolver book out by Eric Deaton | Colt Forum

 

[Bad Karma]

If you folks want a detailed treatise about the various 20th Century Colt revolvers (2nd Gen, 3rd Gen, Blackpowder series), see if Eric has any copies left. Upon first glance, with its very good photos, it might be mistaken for a coffee table book, but he provides all sorts of tables and listings. I have a copy I bought a few months ago, and though I don't collect them, it is well worth the read. I paid $62 shipped for the book and it is well worth the historical knowledge contained therein. He has a pronounced love for them and goes on to compare them to modern Italian replicas (primarily Uberti, which was the source for Colt's raw parts with these guns, even though they were finished and assembled by Colt or its licensees). The Colt revolvers are very good externally, but Colt (and licensees) did not pay particular attention to the finishing of the internals. IMO, it was all about bling with the many variations produced.

Your call.

Regards,

Jim

New Colt Blackpowder Revolver book out by Eric Deaton | Colt Forum

I’ll second that recommendation. Eric’s book is a treasure! As is Pate’s book on the 1860 New Model Army.

 

[jonathan butcher]

And I’ll third it, great book!

I’ll second that recommendation. Eric’s book is a treasure! As is Pate’s book on the 1860 New Model Army.