Lewis and Clark Corps of Discovery firarms.

[SamTex1949]

and it was a repeater too !

The coolest one in my book was the Girandoni air rifle!!!

 

[toot]

The coolest one in my book was the Girandoni air rifle!!!

seems that way back in the day, the ITALIANS invented almost everything!?

 

[allyncooper]

Thx for all the replies, great information for me to do further research. Particularly interesting is the history of the Girandon air rifle (thanks Phil !) , I would never have thought they would have an air rifle. I assume it was used for small game (not grizzlies)? But with space for provisions at a premium having a weapon that did not require powder makes sense. When time permits I will be researching more.

History is important. My family on my fathers side settled in western Pennsylvania before the Revolutionary War. My great great great grandfather was a Colonel Phillip Howell in the PA Militia during the Revolutionary War and quite a famous figure in western Pennsylvania. Supposedly he also had a part in the Whiskey Rebellion. My cousin who lives in Morgantown WV had his Revolutionary War rifle or musket (nothing more known about it and I never actually saw it) for a time but was unfortunately stolen when his house was burglarized a number of years ago. This history kinda sparked my interest in muzzel loaders and in flintlocks in particular.

 

[Packrat]

Air rifles were popular in Austria during that time. ( Early 1800's) During the Napoleonic wars, There was a French Bounty on any captured soldier who had a Air Rifle as they were so dangerous to French soldiers
I would think there must be examples stll in existence

 

[Tangosierra]

The short rifle in this case was the earliest model of the 1803 and number 15 has been located. Here’s a link that may be of interest.

https://greatwar.com/wwi-links/lewis-and-clark-short-rifle/

This is true! They had some 1803 rifles. First prototypes probably. Jefferson shipped them 15 I believe. Read the above link above. greatwar.com. DWG used to carry an 1803 but discontinued it. Still have the earl one I think.

 

[stephenprops1]

Seems to me, I read the expedition also had some air rifles as well as firearms.
I don’t remember where I read this, but the rifles had a large, “bulbous” container hanging below the trigger guard to hold the compressed air.
Anyone remember this article?

They had one air rifle. It was a Girandoni.

 

[Buckskinquin]

Seems to me, I read the expedition also had some air rifles as well as firearms.
I don’t remember where I read this, but the rifles had a large, “bulbous” container hanging below the trigger guard to hold the compressed air.
Anyone remember this article?

Yes, it was an Austrian made air gun and would shoot 40 round balls before reloading and recompressing air tank. There are articles out there about it, I believe the gun is either in the Smithsonian or NRA museum. Google Lewis and Clark air rifle. They only took one with them I believe.

 

[tenngun]

I wonder
They bought, or were issued the contract rifles then had the rifles altered somehow for the expedition
As I recall the contract rifles looked much like the ‘03, but for a smaller caliber, about .50(I’ve read .47) 42” and full stock. Track sells a kit for this gun with 1803 furniture and .50 barrel full stock. Could the alterations been the model for the 1803?
Half stocks were just coming in style in Europe for private rifles. And .54 offers two ball to an ounce of lead and that’s makes accounting easy.
I’ve read this since I picked up my first 1803 HF in .58 and contemplated buying one back in the early 80s from Navy Arms.
Forty years of ‘it was’ it wasn’t’ ‘records show’ ‘it stands to reason’ and no real proof either way. I still stand confused.
I suspect in about thirty years I’ll be able to ask them and will pass the info along to any one who ask via ASK A REAL PSYCIC.com
I will also let interested parties know if Lewis committed suicide or was murdered.

 

[JCKelly]

seems that way back in the day, the ITALIANS invented almost everything!?

Italian guns were regarded as the best available when the pilgrims went to Massachusetts. The English pretty much did not make guns at that time (1620)

 

[Anvilboy]

There is a great deal of info on that gun. Just enter "Lewis and Clark air gun" in your search engine. Some good information. The maker was Giardoni btw. Dale

The top gun in this picture is one the Wild Bill Cody Museum says is similar to the one on the expedition

 

[Tangosierra]

I wonder
They bought, or were issued the contract rifles then had the rifles altered somehow for the expedition
As I recall the contract rifles looked much like the ‘03, but for a smaller caliber, about .50(I’ve read .47) 42” and full stock. Track sells a kit for this gun with 1803 furniture and .50 barrel full stock. Could the alterations been the model for the 1803?
Half stocks were just coming in style in Europe for private rifles. And .54 offers two ball to an ounce of lead and that’s makes accounting easy.
I’ve read this since I picked up my first 1803 HF in .58 and contemplated buying one back in the early 80s from Navy Arms.
Forty years of ‘it was’ it wasn’t’ ‘records show’ ‘it stands to reason’ and no real proof either way. I still stand confused.
I suspect in about thirty years I’ll be able to ask them and will pass the info along to any one who ask via ASK A REAL PSYCIC.com
I will also let interested parties know if Lewis committed suicide or was murdered.

I have read a few different articles on this subject and tend to believe there were some prototype 1803s with possible shortened barrels. Will wait for the PSYCHIC to tell us the truth. Ha! L.O.L. Just my opinion.

 

[Anvilboy]

AC, if I remember correctly their primary weapon was the then new flintlock 1803 Harper’s Ferry rifle of 54 caliber bore with a 33 inch barrel. Lewis and Clark also brought some personal weapons. Like shotguns and pistols. I stood at a place on the Missouri river where L & C carved their names and date into the cliff. It was awesome to think about their presence standing exactly where I stood. Google their diary for a more complete list of their weapons.
good luck and have fun

I think the place you are talking about is Pompey's Pillar. Pompey was the name given to Sacagewea's (sp?) by Lewis or Clark. Here is the photo of Clark's signature.
It is alleged to be the only proof that they made the trip.

 

[andy52]

I think the place you are talking about is Pompey's Pillar. Pompey was the name given to Sacagewea's (sp?) by Lewis or Clark. Here is the photo of Clark's signature.
It is alleged to be the only proof that they made the trip.View attachment 110281

That was in the part of the journey where Sacagewea gave birth to her son and William Clark nicknamed him Pomp and they called the rock formation Pompey's Pillar.

 

[ppg1949]

I think the place you are talking about is Pompey's Pillar. Pompey was the name given to Sacagewea's (sp?) by Lewis or Clark. Here is the photo of Clark's signature.
It is alleged to be the only proof that they made the trip.View attachment 110281

Anvil, As near as I recall from 40 years ago it was like that. Thanks for the memories.

 

[Rod Man]

Ambrose was later to be PROVEN a plagiarist, as well. Phony ass, is what I have heard him called by other scholars.

The book was still good. Now I am going to follow up with the references of the journal entries.

RM

 

[Jaegermeister]

My Italian copy .54 1803 HF is the one firearm I regret selling the most of all. Sigh! Beautiful rifle and very accurate. Just thought I’d throw that out there.

 

[Phil Coffins]

The idea of them using cut down, rebored or other wise altered rifles doesn’t make since. Jefferson gave a letter that basically says Harpers Ferry was to supply anything that was required to insure the success of the expedition. The armory was well staffed and equipped with plenty of material on hand. Lewis was a very capable person and to try to take 15 used rifles from different makers and alter them and make the parts interchangeable would be a difficult way to get rifles ready for this journey into the unknown. We don’t have every document that we’d like to but there are many that support the use of the precursor of the 1803 rifle.

 

[fireman1]

I love these threads.

 

[BrantWW]

The short rifle in this case was the earliest model of the 1803 and number 15 has been located. Here’s a link that may be of interest.

https://greatwar.com/wwi-links/lewis-and-clark-short-rifle/

These are not original rifles but copies.

Remember Lewis visited Harper's Ferry in July 1803. So the rifles he collected there could not have been the Model 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle because the contract for rhe first 2,000 was not let until November 1803.

The rifles Lewis had shortened may well have been protypes, but they were not 1803 rifles as contracted by military.

 

[BrantWW]

The idea of them using cut down, rebored or other wise altered rifles doesn’t make since. Jefferson gave a letter that basically says Harpers Ferry was to supply anything that was required to insure the success of the expedition. The armory was well staffed and equipped with plenty of material on hand. Lewis was a very capable person and to try to take 15 used rifles from different makers and alter them and make the parts interchangeable would be a difficult way to get rifles ready for this journey into the unknown. We don’t have every document that we’d like to but there are many that support the use of the precursor of the 1803 rifle.

It may not make sense to you, but it is history. Lewis had the rifles he took Harper's Ferry modified there per his specifications.

If you recall Lewis visited the armory in early March 1803 with instruction that hr be provided arms.

The order from the SOW for the delevelopment of a new rifle did not arrive at Harpers Ferry until May 1803.

And the contract for the new design was not let until Nov 1803. By that time Lewis well on his way to meet up with Clark.

It is thought some of the modifications Lewis ordered in March 1803 were incorporated into the 1803 model that was later produced in early 1804.