Lewis & Clark Powder Cannister

[Artificer]

Ever since I read the journals of Lewis and Clark as a young boy, I was taken by the cleverness of Lewis's method of storing powder in a lead canister that used just enough lead to make bullets for all the powder in the can. Made of soldered lead, they were corrosion proof, water proof, and sealed with a cork dipped in sealing wax or pitch. By their account, the canisters held 4 pounds of powder and were made of 8 pounds of lead. Assuming they were shooting 0.560 cal balls (~264 grains each) in .58 cal weapons (on average), eight pounds of lead would make up about 212 round balls. With 4 pounds of powder (28,000 grains) in the can, that would leave them 132 grains of powder per shot (including prime). That seemed a little stiff to me, but when you consider that they were shooting elk, buffalo, and griz....maybe it's even a little light. At any rate, it was a @!*% clever idea. So clever that I thought I would make one up for myself, just to keep up on the work shop shelf. While there are sparse verbal descriptions of the original canisters, none now exist and, as far as I can discover, there are not even any sketches of the original design. Also, I didn't want to make one up quite as large as the originals. So, starting with the assumption of holding one pound of powder for a .50 cal rifle, I came up with the dimensions for a canister with a 2.5 inch inside diameter and 6.4 inches tall made out of 0.090 thick sheet lead. The end result, shown in the following photos is made of 2.6 pounds of lead and will cast up just over 100 balls (0.490 diameter and ~176 grains each). Holding one pound of powder, that leaves me with 70 grains of powder per shot - close enough. Anyway, just thought it was a fun thing to do in a couple of hours and thought someone else here might enjoy seeing it.

Dave,

No matter if the original container had a spout or not, your repro looks very much like 18th and early 19th century Oil Bottles that were made from tin. NICE Job!

Gus

 

[davec2]

Gus,

I am almost sure they would not have bothered to put a spout on the originals.....just as I would be very skeptical that the original canisters were square. It would have been way easier to roll sheet lead around a form and solder a single seam that it would be to cut six square plates and solder all the corners. Round can, no spout, cork and sealing wax and your done.

 

[kemart17]

Ever since I read the journals of Lewis and Clark as a young boy, I was taken by the cleverness of Lewis's method of storing powder in a lead canister that used just enough lead to make bullets for all the powder in the can. Made of soldered lead, they were corrosion proof, water proof, and sealed with a cork dipped in sealing wax or pitch. By their account, the canisters held 4 pounds of powder and were made of 8 pounds of lead. Assuming they were shooting 0.560 cal balls (~264 grains each) in .58 cal weapons (on average), eight pounds of lead would make up about 212 round balls. With 4 pounds of powder (28,000 grains) in the can, that would leave them 132 grains of powder per shot (including prime). That seemed a little stiff to me, but when you consider that they were shooting elk, buffalo, and griz....maybe it's even a little light. At any rate, it was a @!*% clever idea. So clever that I thought I would make one up for myself, just to keep up on the work shop shelf. While there are sparse verbal descriptions of the original canisters, none now exist and, as far as I can discover, there are not even any sketches of the original design. Also, I didn't want to make one up quite as large as the originals. So, starting with the assumption of holding one pound of powder for a .50 cal rifle, I came up with the dimensions for a canister with a 2.5 inch inside diameter and 6.4 inches tall made out of 0.090 thick sheet lead. The end result, shown in the following photos is made of 2.6 pounds of lead and will cast up just over 100 balls (0.490 diameter and ~176 grains each). Holding one pound of powder, that leaves me with 70 grains of powder per shot - close enough. Anyway, just thought it was a fun thing to do in a couple of hours and thought someone else here might enjoy seeing it.

thanks for sharing that.. very interesting

 

[Artificer]

Gus,

I am almost sure they would not have bothered to put a spout on the originals.....just as I would be very skeptical that the original canisters were square. It would have been way easier to roll sheet lead around a form and solder a single seam that it would be to cut six square plates and solder all the corners. Round can, no spout, cork and sealing wax and your done.

Good point, an offset hole in a lead cylinder of powder, would pour adequately enough.

Thanks for bringing up this thread. I always wondered about those lead cannisters and had never seen the other repro's that other members have posted. Very interesting!

Gus

 

[smoothshooter]

wonder where they stored the powder when they started melting the lead? just a wonder.

They probably divided it up amongst the men who put it in their horns or flasks.

 

[smoothshooter]

Ever since I read the journals of Lewis and Clark as a young boy, I was taken by the cleverness of Lewis's method of storing powder in a lead canister that used just enough lead to make bullets for all the powder in the can. Made of soldered lead, they were corrosion proof, water proof, and sealed with a cork dipped in sealing wax or pitch. By their account, the canisters held 4 pounds of powder and were made of 8 pounds of lead. Assuming they were shooting 0.560 cal balls (~264 grains each) in .58 cal weapons (on average), eight pounds of lead would make up about 212 round balls. With 4 pounds of powder (28,000 grains) in the can, that would leave them 132 grains of powder per shot (including prime). That seemed a little stiff to me, but when you consider that they were shooting elk, buffalo, and griz....maybe it's even a little light. At any rate, it was a @!*% clever idea. So clever that I thought I would make one up for myself, just to keep up on the work shop shelf. While there are sparse verbal descriptions of the original canisters, none now exist and, as far as I can discover, there are not even any sketches of the original design. Also, I didn't want to make one up quite as large as the originals. So, starting with the assumption of holding one pound of powder for a .50 cal rifle, I came up with the dimensions for a canister with a 2.5 inch inside diameter and 6.4 inches tall made out of 0.090 thick sheet lead. The end result, shown in the following photos is made of 2.6 pounds of lead and will cast up just over 100 balls (0.490 diameter and ~176 grains each). Holding one pound of powder, that leaves me with 70 grains of powder per shot - close enough. Anyway, just thought it was a fun thing to do in a couple of hours and thought someone else here might enjoy seeing it.






[/QUOTE

If I had been Lewis, I would have had the corks cut off flush, or below flush, for better sealing and to prevent the ends of the corks from being broken off due to rough handling.
Good chance that is exactly what was done.

BTW, that lead canister in the photos displays excellent craftsmanship.

 

[MC One Shot]

I believe that square containers made from lead with one side seam was equally plausible as were round cylinders. Back in the 90's I watched someone pour lead into sheets and then make boxes. He used a wooden form, a piece of wood and a mallet to form the box.

 

[davec2]

Good point MC One Shot....done that way there are no more seams to solder than making a cylinder.

 

[Artificer]

Just found this and thought of this thread.

Clark's Journal
Saturday February 1st 1806

To day we opened and examined all our Ammunition, which has been Secured in leaden Canistirs. we found twenty Sevin of the best Rifle powder, 4 of Common rifle, 3 of Glaize and one of Musquet powder in good order, perfectly as dry as when first put in the Canisters, altho the whole of it from various accidince have been for hours under the water. these Cannisters Contain 4 pounds of powder each and 8 of Lead. had it not been for that happy expedient which Capt Lewis devised of securing the powder by means of the Lead, we Should have found great dificuelty in keeping dry powder untill this time—; those Cannisters which had been acidently brused and cracked, one which was carelessly Stoped, and a fifth which had been penetrated with a nail; were wet and damaged; those we gave to the men to Dry; however exclusive of those 5 we have an abundant Stock to last us back; and we always take Care to put a purpotion of it in each canoe, to the end that Should one Canoe or more be lost we Should Still not be entirely bereft of ammunition, which is now our only hope for Subsistance and defences in the rout of 4,000 miles through a Country exclusively inhabited by Indians—many bands of which are Savage in every Sense of the word—.

Gus

 

[Whitworth]

Good post Gus, thanks. Sounds like they opened one up when needed and put in a stopper after dispensing a portion. That raises the question were they spouted or just pierced and the hole plugged with an improvised stopper and resealed with pitch or bee's wax. JMHO

 

[Artificer]

Good post Gus, thanks. Sounds like they opened one up when needed and put in a stopper after dispensing a portion. That raises the question were they spouted or just pierced and the hole plugged with an improvised stopper and resealed with pitch or bee's wax. JMHO

That's possible, but it also could mean the cannisters were set up with stoppers and then lead used to seal them. That way, once they cut off the lead seals, there were already stoppers in place to protect the powder from the elements and from loss until they got all the powder issued out of a cannister.

Gus

 

[smoothshooter]

wonder where they stored the powder when they started melting the lead? just a wonder.

They would have divided it up among the men to top off their horns and flasks.
Maybe even made up some paper cartridges.
Any left over would have gone into leather bags made for the purpose.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Ever since I read the journals of Lewis and Clark as a young boy, I was taken by the cleverness of Lewis's method of storing powder in a lead canister that used just enough lead to make bullets for all the powder in the can. Made of soldered lead, they were corrosion proof, water proof, and sealed with a cork dipped in sealing wax or pitch. By their account, the canisters held 4 pounds of powder and were made of 8 pounds of lead. Assuming they were shooting 0.560 cal balls (~264 grains each) in .58 cal weapons (on average), eight pounds of lead would make up about 212 round balls. With 4 pounds of powder (28,000 grains) in the can, that would leave them 132 grains of powder per shot (including prime). That seemed a little stiff to me, but when you consider that they were shooting elk, buffalo, and griz....maybe it's even a little light. At any rate, it was a @!*% clever idea. So clever that I thought I would make one up for myself, just to keep up on the work shop shelf. While there are sparse verbal descriptions of the original canisters, none now exist and, as far as I can discover, there are not even any sketches of the original design. Also, I didn't want to make one up quite as large as the originals. So, starting with the assumption of holding one pound of powder for a .50 cal rifle, I came up with the dimensions for a canister with a 2.5 inch inside diameter and 6.4 inches tall made out of 0.090 thick sheet lead. The end result, shown in the following photos is made of 2.6 pounds of lead and will cast up just over 100 balls (0.490 diameter and ~176 grains each). Holding one pound of powder, that leaves me with 70 grains of powder per shot - close enough. Anyway, just thought it was a fun thing to do in a couple of hours and thought someone else here might enjoy seeing it.

Neat project. Thanks for help to keep our remembrance of history alive. To me, that is really what our ml passion is all about.

 

[nhmoose]

Make me wonder how they talked the first guy into soldering the seal or top on the full black powder container? Makes me go Hmmmm

 

[necchi]

Make me wonder how they talked the first guy into soldering the seal or top on the full black powder container? Makes me go Hmmmm

There are "scholars" of the L&C journals and related documents,, they have gleaned and compiled every scrap of evidence to be found to date;
Here's a link to 7 a page publication about the canisters by S.W. Wier,, it's good read and well done with the current data and educated summaries,
https://kipdf.com/meriwether-lewiss-lead-powder-canisters_5b109ff27f8b9a41298b4586.html
They paid a feller to make'm;

On May 25, 1803, Israel Whelan, the purveyor of public supplies, paid George Ludlum, a plumber at 96 South Second Street, $26.00 for “Making 52 lead Cannisters for Powder.”

They were "stoppered with cork and sealed with wax" so it's easy to surmise all "soldering" done was before the powder was placed inside.

 

[nhmoose]

No crap they made the container before powder was in it. Do I seem a moron to you? Only an ***** would solder the container filled with powder in it. [perhaps you?]

I asked who sealed the then filled container with solder????
Please explain how they soldered them sealed then as all said the soldered them sealed. Where does it say the sealed them with wax or whatever.

 

[LRB]

As Jake noted, just the one, made by Girandoni. The owner of Beeman Airguns, Dr Robert Beeman, owned it for a long time. I bleeve that he donated it to the NRA Museum - here you can see it on youtube being demonstrated to the USAWC.



There are also a couple of skilled craftsmen in America who make replications, as you can see on YT. Mr Martin Orro?

To be honest, they would scare the almighty bejabbers out of anybody used to seeing a muzzleloading musket in use. Twenty shots in twenty seconds? Holeeeeeeeee smoke!

Of course, the indigens didn't know that they had only the one such rifle, but they were, by all accounts, impressed enough to leave that for the next tribe to find out.

The Girarndoni air rifles were used by the Austrian army for a couple of decades. The air chambers were difficult to make and the guns often had mechanical breakdown issues and were finally abandoned.

 

[LRB]

No crap they made the container before powder was in it. Do I seem a moron to you? Only an ***** would solder the container filled with powder in it. [perhaps you?]

I asked who sealed the then filled container with solder????
Please explain how they soldered them sealed then as all said the soldered them sealed. Where does it say the sealed them with wax or whatever.

I would not care to do it, but they could be easily soldered with a copper tool

 

[SciAggie]

@davec2 That is a cool, creative project.

 

[necchi]

Where does it say the sealed them with wax or whatever.

In an entry made by Capt. Meriwether Lewis on Aug 6th 1805,
In the The Journals of the Lewis & Clark Expedition; volume 5, page 53
I have already provided the link.
I've made no insinuation/judgment of moronic or idiotic behavior. (yet).