Light and short rifles

[Walks with fire]

I would like to get some opinions on the length of barrel and weight of a rifle that is to be used for hunting whitetail deer in Pennsylvania. The caliber would be .54 and round ball twist. How light and how short is too light and too short for accurate shooting to 100 yards? Would it be worth the expense and effort to do a 32" swamped barrel over a 15/16" 32" staight barrel?

Everything I have ever used is a straight barrel with lengths from 21" to 30". I think I do better shooting with the longer barrels over the 24" and under and it seems like charges over 60 grains or so in the short light barreled guns makes it very hard to shoot accurately even to 50 yards. I guess I am just trying to figure out if I should put some money into a swamped barreled rifle or not.

Ok; anyone had any opinions for a deer rifles weight and length. I know some of the members here have used the staight barreled guns for deer hunting for years and only recently made to change to a swamped longrifle and their imput would be greatly appreciated.

I am 5'8" tall so a really long barrel probably wouldn't be good for me anyway. I think my ideal length of pull would be only 13". I am thinking around 36" to 38" might be about right and about 8 lbs. weight.

 

[wattlebuster]

If I were you I would try and handle a few guns with swamped barrels of different lengths an see what feels good to you. I like 38 inch swamped barrel longguns but that might not be your cup of tea. :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

Depending on the style that toots your whistle, a tapered barrel is an option too. I have a couple of them on Hawken styles, and the effect on handling is startling- in a good way. I guess there's at least one example of a swamp on a Hawken, but for my tastes it's tapered. For eastern styles, swamp makes a lot of sense.

And light? I have a 5.5# 54 cal that will bring tears to your eyes if charges get over about 80 grains. Less than that it's a joy to carry and comfortable to shoot.

 

[blackdog of vt]

Barrel profile matters too, the 42'' b wieght swamped 50cal I just built is under 8lbs and balances perfect behind the rear ramrod pipe.

 

[vthunter52]

I'm looking at this question with a lot of interest. Back in the day when I hunted with CF rifles, all of them carted 18 inch blls. This was mostly dictated by the spruce-fir thickets and ceder swamps that I hunt in. Having switched to ML entirely, I haven't lost my want for a short bll. I have one .50 Hawken with 26 inch bll., and one that I find I'm using most of the time with 21 inch bll. the usual distance that deer in these thickets and blowdown hellholes is under 40 yards, with a majority of being shot in their beds. The .5o is more then enough power to anchor these deer. It's a personal choice, but I like the way that my rifles handle.

 

[vthunter52]

I'm looking at this question with a lot of interest. Back in the day when I hunted with CF rifles, all of them carted 18 inch blls. This was mostly dictated by the spruce-fir thickets and ceder swamps that I hunt in. Having switched to ML entirely, I haven't lost my want for a short bll. I have one .50 Hawken with 26 inch bll., and one that I find I'm using most of the time with 21 inch bll. the usual distance that deer in these thickets and blowdown hellholes is under 40 yards, with a majority of being shot in their beds. The .5o is more then enough power to anchor these deer. It's a personal choice, but I like the way that my rifles handle.

 

[Billnpatti]

In order to get complete combustion of the amount of powder that you would use for a hunting load in your .54 caliber rifle, I would think that a 36 inch barrel would be the shortest that would work for you. Much shorter than that and you would not likely get complete conbustion of your hunting load. Incomplete combustion gives irratic results. Talk to your barrel suppplier of the person from whom you are getting your gun and find out what the smallest weight swamped barrel they can supply and go with that. I would suspect that a 15/16 barrel would be the smallest that they could make in .54 caliber. I would think that a 7/8 swamped barrel in .54 caliber might not leave enough "meat" in the sides of the barrel but check with your barrel supplier to see what the lightest swamped barrel he can supply is and go with that.

I really prefer the swamped barrel for its balance and appearance. It will be a few ounces lightere than a straight barrel but you are not likely to notice that small of a difference in weight. You will, however, notice the much better feel of a swamped barrel and you will see the nicer lines of a rifle with a swamped barrel.

 

[Spikebuck]

I have a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken in .54. It's certainly not light-weight at approx 10 lbs. But it has a 34" barrel with 1-65 twist and it's very accurate at least out to 120 yards (as far as I've shot it). So, 34" can certainly be very accurate. If this had a tapered barrel, it would take some weight off.

Very shortly I'm going to be finishing a Jaeger build project that is based on a 31" swamped Rice barrel with 1-66 twist and 62 caliber. It's about 7 3/4 pounds and shoulders up excellently. Of course, haven't fired it yet, but I suspect I'll get excellent results with this rifle as well and it's 3 pounds less than my Hawken. From my research the Jaeger style seems a good option for a short, relatively light-weight hunting rifle.

I also have a 54 cal Tennessee-style rifle that weighs in at 7 1/2 pounds (39" barrel, so not real short) and I shoot 90 grain charges with no significant recoil issues. Different people have different tolerance to recoil, but even down to that weight with a bigger bore, it works for me.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I prefer the Hawken ( A MANS Gun :wink: ) 32" straight barrel in a .54.
I dont have an exact weight but its very doable, easy to carry in the woods, and daedly ccurate to 100 yards+.
Ive shouldered swamped barreled guns. They felt good but tended to be looonger and more expensive.
And again I live in the far West; Jerimiah Johnson, not "the Virginian" tend to define my romance with BP...

 

[okawbow]

I made a 54 cal "Boys' Rifle" (do a search in the flintlock section page 3). The barrel is 30 1/2 long, and 1" straight. It weighs about 8 1/2 pounds.

It is the most accurate rifle I own. I've killed many deer with it and won a few offhand matches with it. I shoot round ball loads up to 110 grains of 3f. It's a comfortable shooter at 90 gr. 3f. A tapered barrel would reduce the weight a little.

 

[stude 283]

I have 2 longer,heavier,and higher quality flintlocks,but always seem to reach for my white mountain carbine if moving much.I don't feel I'm giving away much and the deer don't seem to notice.70gr fffg swiss 50cal round ball.Can't get much shorter or lighter than this!Shoots as good as I can at 100 yds with open sights.

 

[hanshi]

For hunting (longrifles) nothing compares with a swamped barrel. I'm 5'4" and find a 38" swamped barrel near perfect. I've killed most of my deer with a Late Lancaster flint .45 with a 36" straight barrel. It weighs between 6.5 lbs and 7 lbs and handles like a dream even with that straight barrel. My others have 38" barrels which are not too long OR too short and mostly swamped.

 

[Rifleman1776]

My straight barreled Jaeger .54 is fairly heavy. With 70 grain charges the recoil is a notable thump. With heavier charges the recoil can become downright unpleasant. Mine has a 1:72 twist meaning I will never get target-worthy groups with light charges. Those wont come until charges in the 90 to 120 grain range and those would give substantial recoils. However, for hunting only that would not be a problem. All day on the target range would not be fun.
BTW, IMHO, increasing charges does not increase effective range notable with a prb but it does increase the size of game you can take with it at effective ranges.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

My long rifle has a straight tapered barrel and handles and balances great. While swamped barrels may be more traditional for early guns, it puts weight out at the muzzle that doesn't need to be there and wasn't present on many late golden age rifles. I have filed straight barrels so that they go from octagon at the breech to 16 sides to round and tapered. It can not just shave weight off the barrel, but more off the front to help with balance.

While short barrels present some limitations on the amount of powder that can be fired under a round ball ( as well as reducing sight radius), going to a 54, 56 or even a 58 caliber resolves much of that powder burning problem.

Besides which, if it is to be a brush gun, it won't be a long range shot anyway, heavy hunting charges won't be needed for eastern whitetail.

 

[George T.]

I do not know what the weight delta is between a 15/16 vs a swamped but my guess is that it's not enough to worry about. In a 54 with hunting loads a little weight is a good thing! Geo. T.

 

[shootrj2003]

I 've used my Renegade in .54 for many years for many deer and sight in at 100 yds avg. 4-5" groups,I hunt in N.Y.State and my terrain is same asPa.However I believe I could do better groups with a longer barrel and slower twist so I added a Lyman to my armory( GPR)it'sgot1-66"twist so I expect to do better with PRB I did use more conical s before .

 

[Stumpkiller]

I like swamped barrels, but if I was going with a
32" carbine I wouldn't bother with it. I'd try and find a tapered barrel.

Remember that the farther out you get the front sight the more likely you are to be able to hit something at 100 yards. At least for me with these old eyes.

I hunt NY woods with a 44" swamped rifle barrel with no problem at all.

 

[shootrj2003]

I agree with you completely ,there is actually two reasons I figure to hold better groups,as you said the site radius is longer and the slower twist which stabilizes a patched ball better,I prefer a patched ball ,it's just the the way most of the hunters and woodsman did likely ,weren't a lot of conical s around before the middle of the 19thcent.With Renegade I shot conical s hunting because it shot them better,but if I hit a deer with the.54 it was over
If I may ask where are your stomping grounds,I'm here in Huguenot,byPort Jervis .shootr

 

[Stumpkiller]

In the hills between Port Crane and Afton, NY. Closest P.O. is in Tunnel. ;-) About 15 miles North of Binghamton.

As my brother says: "West Bug Nut, NY".

 

[Roguedog]

I too have a T/C Renegade that was bored out to .58 cal with a roundball twist. Shooting a roundball over 110 grains of 2F, the recoil is very moderate while giving good accuracy. It will consistently put ball after ball into a snuff can size hole at 50 yards. The shorter barrel, 26 inches, provides good maneuverabiltiy and the gun has good balance. Shoots a pretty good group out to 100 yards as well. I enjoy using it quite a bit.

Jeff