Light charges better or not?

[Johnny Tremain]

Got rid of my 54 and 58 cal decades ago, only shoot a 45 cal now.
It shoots 55gr @1630fps, and 75gr @2033fps.
The 55gr load is for close in, the 75gr is for past 100 yards.

I have NEVER wiped between shots, Ive NEVER had a misfire do to internal barrel problems. (misfires do to rocks breaking dont count).
Ive NEVER washed my barrel, and its over a decade old now.

Ive had others rifles fail during rondy and have doubled and tripled up shooter with my rifle, and we all finish the 25 round trail walks.

Whats my trick?
Thompson Center 1000+ products ONLY since the barrel was brand new.
Number 13 cleaner & Bore Butter is all thats ever been down the barrel (cept PRB & powder).

Ive been professing the Davenport Formula since I found out about here on this forum.

Each one of you should use it to find you max powder charge, and work backwards for accuracy.
Stop wasting powder!
Your hunting load should never exceed your max powder charge, or unburnt powder is falling on the ground.

As your barrel fouls, you cant get the powder and ball down all the way, and that will stop it from firing, so will massive fouling period.

Stop using all this modern gun fluids, they are not made for black powder, and some even make things worse.
Putting petroleum products of any kind is counter productive to black powder use

 

[vulture]

I don't know about less powder and less fouling, what I do know is what works for me as far as powder charge. Years ago, while a member of a local mountain man club, it was demonstrated to me that one could work up a very light load, that would shoot accurately out to 25 - 30 yds.. and duplicate the point of impact of the ball at 100 -150 yds., depending on what your shooting distance was. Doing this reduced the noise on the firing line, and greatly increased my enjoyment factor when shooting all day. As for fouling we always used a spit patch to load, simply stick a dry patch in our mouth while measuring the powder charge, then load with it. I've shot all day long at some of those shoots and the last load was as easy to seat down the bore as the first, and cleanup at the end of the day wasn't all that bad. I would not do this if hunting, then I use a lubed patch, usually some homemade lube.

 

[Billnpatti]

We surely do differ on a few points. I won't say that you are right or that I am wrong in the way we do things.....just different. It's all in what works for you. You do not wash your bore before putting your gun away. I always do. You don't wipe your bore between shots and I always do. Apparently , you use bore Butter as a bore protector to prevent rust. I use only Barricade because Bore Butter has no rust preventive additives. I know that you like the way you are doing it, but, I still think I'm right. :haha:

One other point I would like to make is that the Davenport formula is handy but it is not a precise number . It is, at best, an approximation because it does not take into account the differences in burn rate due to granulation size or variations in composition. As long as you just use it as an indicator, it can be pretty handy and I do use it with those caveats.

We may differ on how we choose to do things, and that is okay, I would still enjoy shooting with you. :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[Rifleman1776]

I may formally try out my theory here.

:applause: Now yer on yer hoss. This is a do yer own thang game. Do it. Enjoy and let us know what you settle on.

 

[Dphar]

Even during our rainy season (we've had 4" rain Jan/Feb) which is high for us I've had no issue.
I think it has more to do with mixing bore oil and powder.
If I oil the bore It loads hard here too and I have to swipe every few shots.
Try no oil. Barricade instead.
In a dry climate the residue dries out quicker and that should make it worse not better.

You do know that Barracade is a petroleum oil right?
https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/get...-a2ac726617f8/Barricade®-Rust-Protection.aspx

Dan

 

[ryoung14]

When I'm practicing at the range at 25-50 yds or shooting for enjoyment, I hate wiping. It seems to knock accuracy out of kilter and it takes awhile for the gun to settle down again. Plus I worry about pushing fouling into the breech area and inviting a misfire.

To get away from the wiping, I've gone to light loads and relatively thin patches. I can shoot my .50 TCs a couple of dozen times with good accuracy and no wiping if I load a PRB over 30 gr. of fffg with a .010 patch. My .36 Seneca will go the same distance shooting a .010 patched RB over 15 to 20 gr. of fffg. Around 25 shots, the bore starts to need some attention, but by then I've had my fun and am ready to move on.

At heavier loads (such as published in the TC manuals) it's 4 or 5 shots before loading gets difficult and accuracy goes to pot. With the Seneca, it was as few as one or two. Light loads changed the Seneca from a witch to a sweetheart.

Hunting, I go with a 90 gr. load under a heavily patched RB in a .54. It's always worked well, but a 6 shot string is the limit.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I hate wiping. It seems to knock accuracy out of kilter and it takes awhile for the gun to settle down again. Plus I worry about pushing fouling into the breech area and inviting a misfire.

You hate wiping. Excuse the bluntness, but you are in the wrong sport/avocation. BP shooting is dirty and requires wiping. Swabbing (wiping) between every shot maintains consistency in the barrel and contributes to consistent accuracy. With a proper fitting jag you will not push fouling into the breech. If you can find a club with experienced shooters, you can learn much from them. Good luck.

 

[FishDFly]

I hate wiping. It seems to knock accuracy out of kilter and it takes awhile for the gun to settle down again. Plus I worry about pushing fouling into the breech area and inviting a misfire.

You hate wiping. Excuse the bluntness, but you are in the wrong sport/avocation. BP shooting is dirty and requires wiping. Swabbing (wiping) between every shot maintains consistency in the barrel and contributes to consistent accuracy. With a proper fitting jag you will not push fouling into the breech. If you can find a club with experienced shooters, you can learn much from them. Good luck.

Sage advice from an experienced line shooter

 

[ryoung14]

I hate wiping. It seems to knock accuracy out of kilter and it takes awhile for the gun to settle down again. Plus I worry about pushing fouling into the breech area and inviting a misfire.

You hate wiping. Excuse the bluntness, but you are in the wrong sport/avocation. BP shooting is dirty and requires wiping. Swabbing (wiping) between every shot maintains consistency in the barrel and contributes to consistent accuracy. With a proper fitting jag you will not push fouling into the breech. If you can find a club with experienced shooters, you can learn much from them. Good luck.

Tut tut...

 

[Col. Batguano]

Great post. Just remember that the Davenport formula was developed for 2F (Goex) rather than 3F, which seems to be the norm now for everything

 

[Semisane]

Whats my trick? Thompson Center 1000+ products ONLY since the barrel was brand new. Number 13 cleaner & Bore Butter is all thats ever been down the barrel.

And

Stop using all this modern gun fluids, they are not made for black powder, and some even make things worse.

??? You're going to have to pick one position and stick to it. :grin: :wink: :v

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

formulas for success vary so wildly with BP it is rediculous.

My own mad method is to make ball blocks that are thicker than caliber by just a bit. Then i loade them by pushing the prb in and cut the patch flush. Then I flip it over and fill the backside with tallow. When i load it in the gun the tallow side goes down on the powder.

I can load hunting loads and shoot em indefinitely withou swabbing. However I need to shoot about 6 shots before the bore gets evenly fouled and the groups settle in

 

[Greenjoytj]

With a proper fitting jag you will not push fouling into the breech.

A properly fitting jag? How to find out if it's fitted properly?
I can see that a tight fitting jag would push fouling ahead of it on the down stroke. On the up stroke the wiping patch bunches up on the jag jamming onto the jag so it does'nt get left behind in the bore.

Sounds like your advocating a looser fitting patch and jag combination for use while between shot wiping.
Which is the opposite that is required for an after shooting total clean out.

 

[Rifleman1776]

A properly fitting jag? How to find out if it's fitted properly?
I can see that a tight fitting jag would push fouling ahead of it on the down stroke. On the up stroke the wiping patch bunches up on the jag jamming onto the jag so it does'nt get left behind in the bore.

Sounds like your advocating a looser fitting patch and jag combination for use while between shot wiping.
Which is the opposite that is required for an after shooting total clean out.

The jag that is right for your rifle is just fine for complete after-the-shoot cleaning. On other threads it has often been discussed how to reduce the size of a jag. I chuck up in my drill press and use the flat of a file to slowly remove brass. Yes, the patch does bunch up behind the jag and that is what drags gunk back up the bore. A jag that might seem way undersize can still do a fine job of swabbing and cleaning for you. Too large spells problems. Once yer like me and have about 50 spare jags , you will understand. :grin: