Lined Shooting Bags

[stevew]

When did shooting bags start being lined on the inside? Is this practice start in the east or did the mountain man era line there bags as well?

 

[LongWalker]

My focus has been on the trans-Mississippi west; of the several hundred hunting bags with a history of use here that I've examined in-hand, less than .5% were lined . . . which kinda makes me think it was rather uncommon.

In Europe, many of the finer bags were made by workers in fine leather. Many of these were lined, just as finer bags and purses had been lined for hundreds of years.

 

[Trigger]

Just searching.

1950s modern lined bags..

1700 1800.. non modern.

But then again. They could make and do allot.. caveman could Make something..

 

[Trigger]

https://cleentech.com/history-of-hemp-where-it-all-began/

https://www.citizenwolf.com/blogs/news/short-history-of-hemp

 

[Trigger]

They could have.. but they didn't really

 

[rusticbob]

Appears to be a thread searching for a topic!

 

[Trigger]

I been searching history of these bags now..

They have popularity dates mostly.

Depends what you call it. Same thing almost 12 names.

Louis Vuitton. 1850s and they were fancy looking it looks.

 

[Trigger]

The hippie bag.. popular.. 1950s we know.

Found a date. My bag without zippers stuff. 1700

 

[Trigger]

1300 for the oldest women's handbag on display. It looks nice

 

[Trigger]

Lined.

 

[Trigger]

Wikipedia.. no dates but picture and description.

 

[Trigger]

It seems.. I don't know but.

There hunting bags could have been simple.. or... fancy..

https://paleotool.com/2020/04/17/hu...s are needed to,and 18th centuries in America.

https://www.markelliottva.com/2019/05/fur-trade-era-hunting-pouches/

 

[stevew]

So, would it be safe to say the majority of bags from the 1700's to late 1800's probably were not lined?

 

[Trigger]

So, would it be safe to say the majority of bags from the 1700's to late 1800's probably were not lined?

I havnt found any.. just women's purses.

That's is the correct price for one though.. 1700 1800..

 

[LongWalker]

So, would it be safe to say the majority of bags from the 1700's to late 1800's probably were not lined?

That's kind of a loaded question around here; if you aren't careful folks will be throwing up unrelated bags made in modern times in far-off countries, modern reproductions made with no research done to support design and construction details, poorly-interpreted photos of museum pieces, and of course Wikipedia.

Oops, too late.

Let's restrict consideration to "hunting bags used in what is now the USA during the 1750-1875 time period. In my experience in observing original bags meeting these loose criteria, I've only seen a couple cloth-lined bags. In speaking with various museum curators, it was rare for someone to mention a cloth-lined bag (only happened once). When I cared enough to do a search of bags in museums in the eastern US, other than a couple of bags from Europe I was unable to find any cloth-lined bag that had provenance extending prior to 1875.

We know some bags made in Europe, or in the European style, were lined in whole or part with cloth. We also know that some bags were made by highly-skilled fine leatherworkers (at least in some cases, by cordwainers), and were lined in whole or part with thin leather (apparently to give body to tooling or "quilting"). This isn't a "lining" as most people speak of when talking about lining bags, and it isn't cloth.

We also know of bags made of cloth by both Native Americans (e.g. "bandolier bags"), colonists (see the Rev War era orders for the issuance of cloth to make shooting bags), and late-period cloth bags that show up in early match photos. But these aren't cloth-lined bags--in some of the Native examples, they are actually leather-lined cloth bags.

Cloth liners do a good job of soaking up fluid spills, grease, etc, as well as lending a bit more "body" to a bag made of excessively-thin or soft leather. (Of course, there is the problem of cleaning the fluid spills, grease etc from the sewn-in liner . . . .) Cloth can hold moisture, resulting in corrosion or mildew of the contents of the bag (but this is also a problem at times with leather bags). Cloth doesn't typically wear as well or last as long as leather. Problems with materials used (thin/soft leather) are probably more-easily addressed by proper selection of materials in the first place.

Cloth liners seem to have become more-widely seen after the publication of Madison Grant's book The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch. One might describe them as a fad, or a selling tool to make buyers feel the bag is somehow more "special" because it is lined with old flour sacks or Great Aunt Sally's bloomers.

But if authenticity is not the goal, then anything goes.

 

[#BPBReloadingFFL]

Lined.

LOL thanks to Ted Cash for making some of the accessories for this picture

 

[Trigger]

I went to looking at Renaissance gear now.

Some of the Falconry bags pretty cool too.

 

[Trigger]

That's kind of a loaded question around here; if you aren't careful folks will be throwing up unrelated bags made in modern times in far-off countries, modern reproductions made with no research done to support design and construction details, poorly-interpreted photos of museum pieces, and of course Wikipedia.

Oops, too late.

Let's restrict consideration to "hunting bags used in what is now the USA during the 1750-1875 time period. In my experience in observing original bags meeting these loose criteria, I've only seen a couple cloth-lined bags. In speaking with various museum curators, it was rare for someone to mention a cloth-lined bag (only happened once). When I cared enough to do a search of bags in museums in the eastern US, other than a couple of bags from Europe I was unable to find any cloth-lined bag that had provenance extending prior to 1875.

We know some bags made in Europe, or in the European style, were lined in whole or part with cloth. We also know that some bags were made by highly-skilled fine leatherworkers (at least in some cases, by cordwainers), and were lined in whole or part with thin leather (apparently to give body to tooling or "quilting"). This isn't a "lining" as most people speak of when talking about lining bags, and it isn't cloth.

We also know of bags made of cloth by both Native Americans (e.g. "bandolier bags"), colonists (see the Rev War era orders for the issuance of cloth to make shooting bags), and late-period cloth bags that show up in early match photos. But these aren't cloth-lined bags--in some of the Native examples, they are actually leather-lined cloth bags.

Cloth liners do a good job of soaking up fluid spills, grease, etc, as well as lending a bit more "body" to a bag made of excessively-thin or soft leather. (Of course, there is the problem of cleaning the fluid spills, grease etc from the sewn-in liner . . . .) Cloth can hold moisture, resulting in corrosion or mildew of the contents of the bag (but this is also a problem at times with leather bags). Cloth doesn't typically wear as well or last as long as leather. Problems with materials used (thin/soft leather) are probably more-easily addressed by proper selection of materials in the first place.

Cloth liners seem to have become more-widely seen after the publication of Madison Grant's book The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch. One might describe them as a fad, or a selling tool to make buyers feel the bag is somehow more "special" because it is lined with old flour sacks or Great Aunt Sally's bloomers.

But if authenticity is not the goal, then anything goes.

For here American. It's looks

Most examples with cloth liner were are. Early 1900 late 1800 if lucky..

It is what it is...

To save money and pick out make a nice bag to go hunting is one thing..

If your going to an event. you guys are picky and it matters.

the Medieval group. It's different I think.. you could wing it.

Even forum rules here get prude. Just saying. No offense etc.

 

[Notchy Bob]

So, would it be safe to say the majority of bags from the 1700's to late 1800's probably were not lined?

I think that's fair to say. I would agree with pretty much everything @LongWalker wrote in this thread.

However, I did find a picture online of a well-worn pouch with a lining of ticking:



We don't know how old it is. It was obviously heavily used, but many 20th and 21st century buckskinners put a lot of mileage on their gear, so it might not be all that old. This pouch and horn are evidently in the Museums of Western Colorado collections, but I could not find any definitive provenance. The pouch and horn both look like antiques, and whoever carried that pouch used the hell out of it. The shoulder strap is gone, and the flap is worn to shreds. I think it's genuine. In my opinion, even though we don't have definite provenance, this would be a good pouch to copy if you want one with a lining.

I would omit the brass rings that people are so fond of now, also. You do occasionally see these on antique pouches, but they are quite rare and egregiously over-represented now. The same can be said for "composite" straps... webbing or fabric with leather tabs on the ends. They existed, but they were pretty scarce. These items were in the Poulin Spring 2022 Auction:



That pouch on the right looks old, but I don't know its actual age. I would say the wide strap of webbing with leather tabs, the buckle adjustment, and the placement of the buckle in the back (for a right handed person) are unusual, but there they are. I will add this is the only one of its type that I have seen after extensive searching for images of old hunting pouches, but I'll be the first to tell you I haven't seen them all. That pouch on the lower left in this second picture is very typical of what would have been carried in the 19th century. You find lots of pictures of pouches like it.

While we're at it, note also that none of these pouches in the photo above have fasteners for the flap. However, the little pouch in the first photo looks as if it might have had a button that is now missing, and this one from McPheeters has a really cool, rolled leather button to secure the flap:





So, as the Good Book says, "there is nothing new under the sun" (Ecclesiastes 1:9). Pouches with fabric lining, web straps, brass rings, inside pockets, button-down flaps... They all existed, but I am pretty confident in saying that the most common type you would have been likely to encounter back in the day was a simple, smallish, unlined one-compartment leather pouch with a rather narrow leather strap, with or without a plain buckle or button for adjusting the length. People are certainly welcome to carry the kit they like, but I believe it is incumbent on those involved in living history and educating the public to present things as they would have been most commonly seen, or if they show something atypical, they should explain it as such.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Trigger]

Just to add.. this isn't just an American site either.

Aside from what you can get away with reenacting..

Other country used traditional muzzloader