LMF Browning question

[Paul LaFranco]

Im ready to start browning the metal on my GPR kit, I'd like to use LMF browning solution, but I live in Northern IL, and it's cold enough that the furnace is on now, so that means the humidity is low. I don;t know how high the humidity should be for LMF browning solution to work, but I thought that maybe a small humidifier might give enough humidity in the air for the browning solution to work. For you guys that have used this stuff I'd really value your opinion on this. I also seen that Dixie Gun Works has an improved browning formula, any thoughts on that?
Thanks Much,
Paul :wink:

 

[wattlebuster]

Even with low humidity it will give you a good brown but it will take a few days longer. Ive used it on several guns and I've never used a humidity box with any of them.Im building a smoothbore now and will use LMF on it and figure it will take about a week to get the deep brown Im looking for. Good luck to you :hatsoff:

 

[Billnpatti]

While a humidity box is not absolutely essential, it will speed the process along. One secret of getting a good brown with LMF browning solution is to not over polish your barrel. There is no need to use emery cloth finer than about 220 grit. The browning solution needs a surface that it can get a "bite" on and a highly polished surface will not provide it. The first coat will need to stay on your barrel for about 24 hours. Card it with 4 ought steel wool and cool water. Dry and apply a second coat. Check your second and each subsequent coat every few hours because once you get a base coat of rust, each following coat will speed up. If you let it go too long, it is possible to pit your barrel and you surely don't want that. The second, third, fourth, and so on, coats will need to be carded and washed about every 10 to 12 hours. With care and attention to what you are doing, LMF will give you a beautiful brown. If, during the browning process, you are unable to give the barrel the attention that it requires because you have to be somewhere else, card off and wash the barrel and then neutralize the browning as it tells you in the instruction sheet. Then you can dry your barrel and put it away until you are once again able to give it the attention it requires. Once you have the browning where you want it and are satisfied with it, be sure to neutralize thoroughly or it will keep working and go farther than you want and could even result in pitting. At this point, your browning is still "soft" and it can be rubbed off if you sxcrub on it too vigorously. Let the barrel sit for a week or so for the browning to "harden" before subjecting it to any hard rubbing. At that point, heat the barrel by sitting it in the sun for an hour or so and then wipe it down with a good oil such as Barricade. LMF is great stuff and is my browning solution of choice.

 

[necchi]

Even with low humidity it will give you a good brown but it will take a few days longer.

I live in Minn, and the first time I used it years back was in January, it did take several days, I carded with a wet piece of canvis morning and night.
To this day I think it was the nicest results I had.
Most will get anxious and do a hurry-up job, the dry winter forced me to wait several days and it came out nice.

I remember with that barrel I put too much on and rubbed it first application. I got the copper colors and no rust and had to sand it and start over,,

 

[crockett]

I've done it both with and without a humiditry box and it seems to work well both ways. Instead of starting with the barrel why not try any smaller parts that you also intend to brown.
A humidity box can be made fast and cheap unless you plan to keep it long term. Some carboard boxes with a lamp inside and a pan of water or a wet towel. Leaf bag over everything.

 

[Vaino]

I use a "sweat box" fashioned from a 2X4 frame and baling wire and draped w/ 3 mil plastic wrap....a sheet of cardboard is the cover. It's done many bbls w/ hot towels laid on the bottom every 4 hrs during the 12 hour box time. W/o carding, the LMF is applied sparingly and another 12 hour cycle w/ the hot towels. A light carding w/ green "Scotchbrite", a hot water rinse and a coat of LMF every 4 hours and a denim carding for 3 cycles yields a nice matte finished brown. Total time...36-40 hours. Most of my browning takes place during the low humidity months of the winter heating season. LMF is a very strong browning reagent and I've had incomplete results neutralizing w/ baking soda, so now use household ammonia.....Fred

 

[Paul LaFranco]

Thanks alot to all you guys I really appriciate the instruction, It's settled then Im gonna order the LMF brown, for my GPR kit, and some Oxpho Blue for the T/C Hawken the barrel needs to be touched up in a few spots. On a side note I stained the stock today, and the color is exactally what I want, that GPR stock is really a pretty piece of wood.
Thanks Again,
Paul :grin: :grin:

 

[Col. Batguano]

I sanded my barrel down to 320 grit for the top flats, and 220 on the bottom that won't show. After about 16 hours, coat #1 has a few streaks of orange / brown, and lots of places where it's just kind of a dull grey.

Question; do you take the sights off, or leave them on for the browning? I left my percussion drum on, but have not yet drilled it for the nipple. I figured that was pretty much the last step in a percussion ML'er build.

 

[Noggindrill]

rightwinger,

Which brand and color of stain did you pick? I'm
just starting on my GPR kit and will use LMF Browning for the barrel and other metal parts.

 

[Col. Batguano]

LMF cold browning. I have a bottle of Birchwood Casey plumb brown too. I was thinking about using that on the small parts like the lock and the triggers (because they could fit in an oven), and LMF on the barrel, but then I figuered what the heck. It's not any harder to do all the parts the same way at the same time. Compared with all the work it took to get to this point, I can definitely see that I'm in the home stretch on the build.

 

[Noggindrill]

OK on the barrel w/LMF. I was wondering about the stain color used for the stock. I'm looking for something that is not going to be really dark, perhaps with a hint of red in it.

 

[Zonie]

You spent a lot of time sanding with a sandpaper that is 320 grit paper.

That is causing your problem.

At this stage you can either resand it with 180 grit paper and try again or you can keep on applying the browning solution and putting the barrel in a hot, steamy room (or box).

Eventually it will probably start to bite into the metal and do what you expect it to do.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Being almost January, and in MN, the air is pretty dry, and it's relatively cool in the basement. So, I think I'll just give it some extra time to work. Since I have some final stock shaping to do, it's not like the browning is slowing me up. If it takes a week or two, it doesn't really matter, as that will not appreciably slow the build. Rather than 8 hours between coats, it seems like it's more like 24 before I get any action.

Just finished my first carding this morning (I used a Scotchbrite pad), and put on another coat, which is my 3rd now. I decided to take the sights off so the application could be more smooth.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Do you have a deep sink in the laundry room? Fill it with hot water and suspend the barrel over it. Hang in the bathroom and as you shower leave the exhaust fan off. Hang the barrel over a pot of water on a hot plate. There are many ways to get moisture to it, building a damp box is the best and it can be as simple as a cardboard box, a pot of water and a incandecent shop light.

Just finished my first carding this morning (I used a Scotchbrite pad), and put on another coat, which is my 3rd now.

What does it look like after 3 applications? If you don't have rust starting over the entire barrel at this point you should follow the advice that's been given several times now and go over your barrel with a courser grit of paper/cloth so that the browning will get a good bite into the steel.

I decided to take the sights off so the application could be more smooth.

You are not painting. Whether or not the the application is smooth has little to do with the final result on rust brown. You are corroding the surface of the barrel, it will even out in the end. Removing the sights and browning them separately you risk scratching your finish on both upon reinstallation.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Hmmm.

Well, I can let you know tomorrow morning how much rust develops in a day. The first coat only went on the day before, so it's only been 36 hours. It is lightly discolored throughout now, and some places are streakier than others. If it doesn't work then I'll remove what's been done and start over.

I need to shape the profile on the front blade, and notch the rear sight anyway. Do you guys leave tabs on your sights hanging off the side as, these are wider than the top flat. Or, do you file them flush with the flat? I've seen them both ways.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Streaking will even out as each subsequent coat works but it is an indicator of a surface that was not prepped properly. Rust brown is a building process not an instant one.

As far as the sight bases hanging out past the dovetail slots, do what is proper for the build you are doing. Some makers left 'em proud and some filed 'em off or only made them as wide as the slot in the first place. Study original work and attempt to emulate it.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[mikemeteor]

Better leave a little hanging over each side on your front sight at least for now - you might be tapping it one way or another during the sighting in process.

 

[crockett]

Well, honesty is good so....
I don't like that orange or copper color. That is usually due to using too much solution and wiping back and forth on the surface. I know because I did that on a few guns. This results from trying to do "too good" a job. Once you get that copper sheen it can be hard to establish rust. You might want to lightly go back and do the 320 grit one more time.
Dampen the rag with the browning solution- damp- not soaking wet. Do only ONE WIPE. don't go back and forth. If you miss a little area- don't worry, you'll get that next time.
On the carding, the only thing you want to do is remove LOOSE rust which isn't going to be very much. A terry cloth towel and hot water will work okay.
And, as said, the baking soda bath to neutralize the acids is pretty weak and you might see the barrel continue to rust, so watch it or do a first class job on the neutralizing.
Some folks "finish" with beeswax or linseed oil. Just a little. Try it on the bottom of the barrel to see whether or not you like the appearance.
I always have the sights off while browning. After browning, use GOOD DRIFTS to install the sights- a slip here will scratch the finish you just created.
P.S.- the small parts are easy with LMF, just use a q-tip and dab and set aside on a small tray.

 

[Zonie]

I wouldn't use a Scotch Brite pad for any carding.

These things are coated with aluminum oxide or silicon carbide which is the same thing as sandpaper.

Either will easily remove any of the hard brown rust that is forming so the barrel will never become browned.

A rough rag that will knock off the loose red rust is what carding is all about.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi,
After sanding and removing all blemishes if you then sand blast, then browning will take very well.
You can also age your piece with sand blasting, but I would practice on scrap metal first.
Fred