loading all 6 Chambers

what does this have to do with a cap and ball revolver?

the SA cap and ball revolver usually has notches or some other form of holding the hammer off the caps. the Ruger did not have anything hold the hammer from the primers.

There is no difference. Ruger had a safety notch, just like Colt always did. As posted, even the posts between nipples are not fail-safe. The only safe way to carry with all six chambers loaded is with a 12-notch cylinder and I don't see many of those around.

 

[crockett]

CraigC: as I said I have an open mind. I never owned a Ruger Old model but I thought they had a firing pin in the hammer just like the Colt peacemaker, as far as notches to hold this firing pin- how did it work? If these notches were halfway between chambers- then I agree- it is a similar situation to the percussion guns BUT then we have to find out on the mishaps- were folks using whatever type notch was there or just lowering the hammer on a live round? If the later, any hard knock on the hammer could fire that cartridge. If you pulled back the hammer A LITTLE but not far enough to rotate the cylinder, then the hammer would fall back on the cartridge it was resting upon and fire it. In any event it has always been my thinking that the peacemaker was loaded with five and the hammer was lowered over the empty chamber- in fact that's how I do it with my Peacemaker clone.
On the percussion guns it has been my thought the hammer was lowered between the nipples. This brings about quite a different situation. A knock on the hammer or a slight lifting and falling of the hammer does nothing. For an accident to occur the hammer must be lifted very forcefully AND rotate the cylinder far enough to go into battery or lock up. This pretty much has to occur by pulling the hammer past the undercut half cock notch, then the hammer must fall and the undercut half cock notch fail in order for the gun to fire. This undercut notch doesn't come into play when a person fires the gun because the trigger finger is holding down the trigger such that the trigger spring can't force the trigger into the half cock notch.
Like I said, I've thought about this one quite a bit and it just seems to me that it should not be an issue. If we are worried about a hammer on a percussion revolver snagging and moving the cylinder a half movement into battery then what about the Peacemaker? What if the hammer on a Peacemaker was snagged and pulled far enough back to rotate the cylinder far enough that the ajoining chamber was now in battery AND the hammer fell and wasn't caught by the half cock notch and the gun fired? That's not that much more of an event than the percussion revolver (that is the cylinder moves twice as far)- but no one is saying load four on a peacemaker- an empty chamber under the hammer AND an empty chamber on the right of it.
I've holstered my 1851 Colt and rubbed the hammer against a snag- trying to deliberately cause it to pull back and rotate the cylinder and I cannot do it. Never say never but it seems to me that the load 5 is great for the cartridge gun but not necessary on the percussion as long as the hammer is lowered between the nipples.
I am assuming that those that advocate load five on a percussion are doing such that the empty chamber is a 1/2 turn to the right of the hammer, so that if the hammer is snagged and the cylinder rotates and the hammer drops and is not caught by the half cock notch, that the hammer then drops on an uncapped nipple/empty chamber.
I also realize safety is a very personal issue, we must all do that which is in our comfort zones. As I said before, if small kids are about- the 5 load is probably a good idea because they will then do the same of a cartridge gun.

 

[Al Cummins]

I carry my 58 Remmie all day nearly every day have for three years...I load all 6.....if it had 7....

 

[Dickydalton]

:thumbsup:

 

[crockett]

Well I believe in SAFETY FIRST but I really think on a cap & ball is is alright to load six. As I said, all the accidents so far that I have heard about (cap and ball revolvers) were not due to loading six instead of five. BUT, I have an open mind and will reconsider if I am wrong on this. I am not defending any position- it is just how I personally see things. Each person must decide for themself.

 

[Dphar]

I will defer to the wisdom of a man who has been at it longer than I have been.

When it is on my hip I think I will just go with 5 from now on. But when it is stashed away I think all 6 will be loaded. In my stash spot it isn't going to advance the cylender or get banged.

Exactly.
Dan

 

[Dphar]

My current pistol has very good pins, so I load it all the way. The pistol before this one had worn down pins and could easily slip off them, so that pistol only got loaded 5 chambers. Over the years I have bassed my answer to that question on how reliable those pins are.

If the pins are good then go ahead and load it up, but if there is any worry they have been worn down and it could slip then I would suggest that you only load 5.

Every C&B revolver I ever carried would jump the pins (I used a Remington type). There is no "good" pin. If the hammer is bumped or pushed back even 1/16" the cyl will likely move and eventually end up with a cap under the hammer. Repros or the Second Gen Colts all the same. One go around with a 2nd Gen Navy convinced me that pins are just for show unless in a full flap holster. Tying down the hammer may help too. But the potential consequences are severe if there is an AD.
The only one that never did was a full flute army I carried for a year or two. Like the Manhatten it required a lot of movement to pull the lock bolt back into the frame far enough to clear the flute.

Dan

Darn I hate that... "I NEVER used Remington type"
Type, hit post, run to shop has its draw backs.
Running to shop now :grin:

Dan

 

[scott taylor]

I am begining to believe that there is a thin line between being safe and paranoia.
I'm of the load all six school, if the pins or notches are good.

 

[crockett]

GST: the way I see it, some folks view the subject on the idea that it is better to err on the side of safety than to take a chance. I fully understand their attitude and I agree with it if there truly is any question about whether a particular practice is or is not safe.
Let me explain: in my state you have to take a hunter safety course in order to obtain a hunting license. This safety includes a lot more than gun handling- it includes getting lost, exposure to elements, falling out of tree stands, etc. When the gun handling segment is presented the instructors state that all guns are dangerous and it is up to the gun owner to know how the safety mechanism works on their particular firearm. Several times I wrote that the dialogue should change because some firearms are inheritently more dangerous than others. I thought a diagram ought to be presented on how- say on a side by side shotgun- the safety only locks the trigger and if the sear engagement is worn a hard jar could fire the gun AND a lot of younger shooters buy inexpensive guns where these critical areas are often poorly fitted and not heat treated and can quickly wear. Another may be a bolt action rifle, on an original Mauser the firing pin was oval- not round- so if the safety was engaged and the pin rotated, it became impossible for it to travel forward in its slot the fire the gun. What about a lever action gun, some have cross bolt safeties and some do not- an incredible difference in safety. And of course muzzle loaders- virtually none have any sort of safety mechanism.
I was told- NO, NO, NO. ALL GUNS are dangerous. To me that doesn't educate folks very much and doesn't make much sense. The point of all this is that just "erring on the side of caution", to me at least, seems like an easy answer to all safety questions when what is really needed is an indepth look at what is the record of a particular matter and what is or is not a safe practice.
My state used to publish an annual summary of all accidents that occurred while hunting. A lot were shotgun related- lots of folks hunting as a group with birds or rabbits headed in different directions and eveyone shooting at the same time. There were always a few accidents of guns with rounds in the chamber being loaded in vehicles or boats or handed over fences and the safety failing and the gun accidentally firing. And for the deer hunter- the number 1 was always falling out of a tree stand. If these three areas were given a lot of attention almost all accidents in my state would have been eliminated.