Loading from the horn

[amcmullen]

If I had a full stock long rifle I'm sure I would use a horn and other PC stuff. I only have a TC and a traditions so i measure my powder in my plastic measures from my plastic powder holder.

God, I need to get a full stock PC rifle. .. I would love to feel cool and Olde tymey, seriously

 

[Cruzatte]

It's a scientific fact, that loading from a powder horn, makes all game taste much better and your gun shoots straighter. That is why everyone should own several custom powder horns for each gun they own!

Rick....... :rotf:

Oh man.....I just knew it! So much you can learn from hangin' out on this forum! :blah: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Gene L]

I have no intention of getting dunked underwater. But I think my flask would work.

As for game tasting better, I don't hunt so the taste of game isn't all that important.

Maybe I'll use my shooting pouch (which I made) now that I've loaded my horn! At the range, of course. I don't hunt but would like to dust a few squirrels in my back yard. They're kind of sassy.

 

[tenngun]

Gene, It's not really about being PC or HC.....
It's about developing a connection and appreciation for the past....The way things once were....capturing that brief fleeting moment in time....A simplistic and primitive connection....Knowing that such methods are just as effective as anything modern produced today...

Any argument against a horn could also be transferred to muzzleloaders themselves.....
It's not about the argument.....it's about the "want"..... :grin:

:thumbsup: :hatsoff: A horn is just 'right'. Its not about the best way, although horns do the job very well, its about the whole of the experience. Flask are right too for guns that are right for flask.

 

[tenngun]

I used to watch closely for spillage, never saw it :idunno:
When the legend becomes a fact, print the legend :haha:

 

[Ames]

I will always use a horn. No flask up here.
I seem to remember Justin Wilson measured wine for the pot and wine for the cook about the same way too. A little for the cook...a little for the chicken...a little more for the cook... :haha:
Bought his book. Loved that show.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Our ancestors probably eyeballed it and possibly a few lost hands to this practice, although I've never heard of such.

Because it's more than likely that except when about to be killed and getting the gun loaded and a shot off meant the difference between life or death..., they didn't eyeball it. :shake:

We have extant powder measures from the period.

We have records that the military measured their powder for each load.

We have records of how they loaded without a measure by placing the ball in the palm of the hand, and covering it with powder.

We also have lots of records of the ratio of lead to powder when folks were buying supplies or resupplying. The ratio doesn't vary much if at all. Indicating that common use the loads were pretty standard, and you can't get that by eyeballing from a horn directly into the muzzle.

We even have fictional stories where a character is chastised for using too much powder. See James Fenimore Cooper Last of The Mohicans c. 1826 where Hawkeye berates Uncas for using to much powder.

Not to mention that the history of the firearm in civilian hands in North America shows an economy of ammunition for use on big game animals. They did a very good job of using enough powder to get the animal, and no more. This indicates that powder wasn't cheap, nor highly available, so wasting powder by eyeballing was not the practice.

LD

 

[54ball]

A horn carries better especially as a single unit.
Even a loose "day horn" in the pouch carries better.
Smaller horns can be shaped flat.
Cow horns can be made so thin you can see the powder.
Horns don't clang.
Horns don't corrode and eventually stop up.
It's a PITA to prime and load from the same flask.
Many flasks have a valve with a measured charger attached to the spout so the temptation is there to load directly from the flask down the muzzle trusting the "valve".
Both horn and flask carry the the equivalent charge of a WWII grenade.
To me it's easier to get a system or technique in loading from a horn. (uncap-measure-cap-charge-load-uncap-prime-cap-fire) All done with the horn there slung to your side or as a mate to your pouch.

 

[BrownBear]

Don't forget the gee-whiz factor.

I shoot with a bunch of guys who are pretty haphazard in their assembly of gear. Looking only at powder carry, there's everything from a catsup squeeze bottle to a plastic coke bottle and the metal flasks on the table in this wandering jawfest.

One guy bought a horn from a big box and was proud to spend so little money. Had a genuine boot lace strap and all. About as big as a foot ball, and I bet it holds 2 pounds of powder. So leaky in our wet climate he ruined a lot of powder, and it dribbled enough you wouldn't want to drop a match on his backtrail. He's gone back to a brass flask.

Every man jack of them uses an adjustable brass measure.

If I was more ambitious and had more time on my hands, I'd make each of them a loose "day" horn to fit in their pocket or bag.

They all drool when I drag mine out along with my deer horn measure, but not a one of them is inclined to make their own or spend more than big box prices for one someone else built.

But they keep on drooling while reaching for their makeshift solutions.

Makes me proud! :thumbsup:

 

[S.Kenton]

Not to be argumentative... But I've read that Boone and Kenton could load on the run and while doing this,I'm sure that the powder was eyeballed and loaded directly from the horn...and the lead balls were stored securely in their mouthes during the heat of combat...now ive also read that while on a hunt that powder was carefully measured so that none was wasted and that the shot was sure. Just thought I'd toss my two cents in.... :v

 

[Ames]

:applause: :applause: :applause:
Any pics of those horns?

 

[Stumpkiller]

All these delights are on my smoothbore horn - Deer, grouse and bunny.

And one surprise for my camp name and favorite bow target.

This treasure is by our own Horner75. Makes my time hunting and shooting that much more enjoyable.

 

[Ames]

Nice!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

But I've read that Boone and Kenton could load on the run and while doing this,I'm sure that the powder was eyeballed and loaded directly from the horn

As did Lewis Wetzel, which is why I wrote,

except when about to be killed and getting the gun loaded and a shot off meant the difference between life or death..., they didn't eyeball it

LD

 

[Gene L]

There's a video on Youtube, I believe, that shows a guy loading a Baker rifle from the flask. He's a Canadian, if that makes a difference.

 

[Artificer]

Bingo!! I was thinking the same thing before I read your post. Lew Wetzel was highly renowned in the period, for being able to load while on a dead run.

Gus

 

[tecum-tha]

Powder and lead was an expensive commodity in colonial times. We hunt with about 10 grains for every 0.1" of caliber and at deer sized game, I had only one pass through at the last 7 deer combined. In the rest of the cases, the deer was going down almost instantly or dropped down. During field dressing, the deformed lead ball was recovered every time from the animal. The ball seemed to have spun around in the heart/lung/spine area and always collapsed both lungs and usually got stopped by the spine.
The only used up material was the powder and the patch, as the lead ball was ready to go back into the casting pot.
I bet the same thing was done when shooting for practice. They tried to recover in my opinion a lot of their lead.
For precision shooting, only measured loads will deliver consistent results. I may not rule out the use of slightly different amounts of powder to affect range though. Sometimes a faster, flatter flying ball is desired.

 

[Gene L]

In the movie "Sgt. York" the fourth place shooter could dig the lead out of the backstop as his reward. I'm not sure, but I think in the Alvin York Shoot that's still done..those who shoot in that worthy competition can correct me if I'm wrong.

One of the things taxed in the Revolution was lead, which was imported and caused an uproar when the taxes went into effect. As well as bullets, lead was also used in type-setting. I don't know which was most upsetting, bullets or broadsides.

Lead is pretty common, but in America it wasn't under every stone upturned. I don't know about early mining of lead in America. In an emerging country without roads, transporting lead must have been expensive.

All going to say lead was likely rare enough to encourage conservation.

 

[tenngun]

And although people could live well there was little money. Much was bartered, and one trouble with barter is buying small lots. Nor did they live in a throw away society.

 

[George]

A horn carries better especially as a single unit.
Even a loose "day horn" in the pouch carries better.
Smaller horns can be shaped flat.
Cow horns can be made so thin you can see the powder.
Horns don't clang.
Horns don't corrode and eventually stop up.
It's a PITA to prime and load from the same flask.
Many flasks have a valve with a measured charger attached to the spout so the temptation is there to load directly from the flask down the muzzle trusting the "valve".
Both horn and flask carry the the equivalent charge of a WWII grenade.
To me it's easier to get a system or technique in loading from a horn. (uncap-measure-cap-charge-load-uncap-prime-cap-fire) All done with the horn there slung to your side or as a mate to your pouch.

True enough, but there are a lot of references to flasks in the 18th-century literature. My earliest is powder flasks for sale in 1738, Philadelphia.

The Pennsylvania Gazette
May 18, 1738
Just Imported, and to be SOLD, BY JAMES WRAGG, At his Store, next to the SCALES in Front-Street, PHILADELPHIA.
”¦. Cast sad Irons, Gimblets, Spring Powder Flasks, Brass and Iron Compasses,

I'm having trouble finding it, but I have somewhere a reference to an explosion-proof valve for powder flasks which had been tested and approved. Here is an interesting reference to such a valve, in a comic song sung at Old Hats Pigeon Shooting Club, near London, 1817.

A New Patent Shooting Song

What lots of gun patents, 'tis wondrous I ween
We jolly old knights of the trigger have seen;
Patent pans, patent hammers, and waterproof locks;
Patent breeches and touch-holes, and patent shap'd cocks.
Derry down, down, derry down.

Patent ribs, patent lips, patent barrels, with bore
Of large and small size, for each choice amateur;
With gravity catches, the sportsman's salvation,
And many more articles that mock calculation,
Derry down, etc.

Like a globe patent shot, that in spite of fate must,
When impell'd by the force of Pigou's patent dust,
Go straight to its object with no deviation,
And render death always a sure operation
Derry down, etc.

The fire-proof flask that the powder contains
Defies all explosion or loss of your brains;
The self-filling shot-bag affords quicker fire--
This principle all shooting men must admire
Derry down, etc.

Overloaded with patents of quackish invention,
A cure for bad shots is their honest intention:
but false to their purpose they greenhorns entrap
And render them worthy--a patent foolscap.
Derry down, etc.

Spence