steelerzzz
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Does anybody leave a cleaning jag on their ramrod to load roundballs and clean between shots?
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loading prb with cleaning jag
- Thread starter steelerzzz
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Rocky Johnson
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Yes
I have a range rod with jag for target work but I don't carry one while hunting.
:wink: Rocky
I have a range rod with jag for target work but I don't carry one while hunting.
:wink: Rocky
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sure do- done it all my life... one less thing to keep track of in the woods!
You mean your not suppose to do that??? :nono: :shocked2: :redface: Golly!!paulvallandigham
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I have left the " cleaning " jag on my gun forever, as its one thing I don't have to look for. It extends the length of the ramrod, in the field, making it easier to handle with cold hands. It does get dirty when you shoot, but that is handled by using a spit cleaning patch on the jag before you pull the ramrod out of the pipes. Then I run the spit patch down the barrel to put out embers, and clear the vent hole. On the way back, that same patch cleans gunk out of the barrel. I usually follow it with a dry patch, to pull out more gunk from the corners of the grooves, and the gun is ready to load. A third damp patch is used to wipe off the flint, frizen and flashpan. I have left my jag face flat, as I don't pressure the PRB when its loaded. I load to a point where the PRB just touches the powder charge( and a mark to that effect on my rod), and do not compress the powder, nor distort the shape of the ball.
When I first started out, I was pushing down hard on the ball when I loaded, distorting it. I got very good accuracy at the 25 yard targets. My accuracy dropped off widely at 50 yards, and at 100 yards, I was lucky to hit paper off the bench. when I stopped distorting the ball during loading, my groups at 50 yards shunk dramatically- It was hard to believe I was shooting the same gun-- and at 100 yards, I could get a fair 5-6 inch groups with the crude sights I had on that particular gun.
I do not recommend compressing powder in any flintlock unless your chronograph tells you that you get a lower SDV and you do see better groups, compared to Not compacting the powder. A compacted charge MAY--I emphasize MAY, because sometimes it doesn't-- give you higher velocity, but I have found that the SDV is larger, than if the powder is loaded loosely.
My point is that using the jag "as is " to load your PRB does nothing to harm the ball, or adversely affect accuracy, unless you are loading an oversized ball, or trying to force a PRB down a barrel that is terribly dirty, and has built up enough crud to keep the PRB from going down the barrel ( ie. its "stuck") The Fix for this latter problem is to dribble some water, or liquid patch lube down the barrel to soak the patch and the area of crud , so that the PRB can be moved down on the powder charge, and then fired into the ground to empty the gun for a proper cleaning.
When I first started out, I was pushing down hard on the ball when I loaded, distorting it. I got very good accuracy at the 25 yard targets. My accuracy dropped off widely at 50 yards, and at 100 yards, I was lucky to hit paper off the bench. when I stopped distorting the ball during loading, my groups at 50 yards shunk dramatically- It was hard to believe I was shooting the same gun-- and at 100 yards, I could get a fair 5-6 inch groups with the crude sights I had on that particular gun.
I do not recommend compressing powder in any flintlock unless your chronograph tells you that you get a lower SDV and you do see better groups, compared to Not compacting the powder. A compacted charge MAY--I emphasize MAY, because sometimes it doesn't-- give you higher velocity, but I have found that the SDV is larger, than if the powder is loaded loosely.
My point is that using the jag "as is " to load your PRB does nothing to harm the ball, or adversely affect accuracy, unless you are loading an oversized ball, or trying to force a PRB down a barrel that is terribly dirty, and has built up enough crud to keep the PRB from going down the barrel ( ie. its "stuck") The Fix for this latter problem is to dribble some water, or liquid patch lube down the barrel to soak the patch and the area of crud , so that the PRB can be moved down on the powder charge, and then fired into the ground to empty the gun for a proper cleaning.
I've seen a patched ball come part way back down the bore when the edge of the patch hung up on the cleaning jag.
IMO it's a very dangerous practice.
The fellow it happened to, just happened to notice the patched ball protruding slightly from the muzzle as he was getting ready to shoot.
IMO it's a very dangerous practice.
The fellow it happened to, just happened to notice the patched ball protruding slightly from the muzzle as he was getting ready to shoot.
steelerzzz said:
Its a PITA. Gave it up 40 years ago.
Dan
P.S.
To expound a little more I put the ball down with the small end of the rod with a brass or steel end on it. Thus I don't have to swap ends with the rod to put the ball down. I would also point out that rods that protrude beyond the muzzle can effect accuracy.
But your mileage may vary.
Mark Lewis said:
This is covered in the PITA part of my other post. One reason I quit using the jag when loading. If I need to wipe between shots I just carry a range rod. I don't like my loading rod getting subjected to moisture if I can avoid it.
Dan
paulvallandigham
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Only if you are both careless, and moving too darn fast, Mark. I keep my eye on the muzzle of my gun's barrel, as a matter of safety. I don't want it pointed at anything I don't want to destroy, including ME! I don't seem to have any trouble keeping the extended jag from catching on anything.
As to Dan's comment about loading with one, I remove the ramrod when I reach a tree I am going to use as my ground stand, and stand the rod against the bark of the tree, jag end down. To reload my gun, if needed, All I do is back around out of sight of the game, lift the RR straight up, fit the jag into a cleaning patch on the muzzle, and hand over hand it down the barrel, stopping an inch before I hit the plug. OUt it comes, and gets flipped over. I run it down and this time take it to the plug. I check the gooeyness of the patch when it comes out. If its too wet, I use a second, dry patch to dry the barrel further. Then the powder goes in, then the PRB is seated and run down with the RR. the rod gets leaned again against the tree bark, and I prime the pan, then slowly move the barrel around the tree to find the deer again. Only my eye, forehead, and elbow appear around the tree where the deer could see them, with the muzzle of the gun.
The first deer I killed, I followed this exact routine, and I had a fine bead on the neck of a yearling that had been trailing the Doe I shot, when I came around the tree for the second shot. The Doe was not in sight, having staggered down the side of the ravine leaving two yearlings behind. I decided I had made a very good shot on the doe, and passed on shooting the last yearling. I followed the tracks and blood trails down to the bottom of the ravine, where the Doe was piled up, very dead.
So, I don't find leaving the jag on the ramrod an inconvenience in the least. How you handle your gear depends on your personal training and objectives. For instance, when I carry a semi-auto pistol in a case for self defense, I first grab a loaded magazine from the case, and then the pistol. The pistol stabilizes the soft case better than do the shorter magazines, and if I pick up the pistol first, I find half the time that the magazines are spilling out onto the ground below. Without a magazine of ammo in the gun, the gun is an expensive rock. So, I trained myself to grab a loaded magazine FIRST. The same with grabbing a cleaning patch before I take a ramrod out of the pipes after making a quick shot. :hmm:
As to Dan's comment about loading with one, I remove the ramrod when I reach a tree I am going to use as my ground stand, and stand the rod against the bark of the tree, jag end down. To reload my gun, if needed, All I do is back around out of sight of the game, lift the RR straight up, fit the jag into a cleaning patch on the muzzle, and hand over hand it down the barrel, stopping an inch before I hit the plug. OUt it comes, and gets flipped over. I run it down and this time take it to the plug. I check the gooeyness of the patch when it comes out. If its too wet, I use a second, dry patch to dry the barrel further. Then the powder goes in, then the PRB is seated and run down with the RR. the rod gets leaned again against the tree bark, and I prime the pan, then slowly move the barrel around the tree to find the deer again. Only my eye, forehead, and elbow appear around the tree where the deer could see them, with the muzzle of the gun.
The first deer I killed, I followed this exact routine, and I had a fine bead on the neck of a yearling that had been trailing the Doe I shot, when I came around the tree for the second shot. The Doe was not in sight, having staggered down the side of the ravine leaving two yearlings behind. I decided I had made a very good shot on the doe, and passed on shooting the last yearling. I followed the tracks and blood trails down to the bottom of the ravine, where the Doe was piled up, very dead.
So, I don't find leaving the jag on the ramrod an inconvenience in the least. How you handle your gear depends on your personal training and objectives. For instance, when I carry a semi-auto pistol in a case for self defense, I first grab a loaded magazine from the case, and then the pistol. The pistol stabilizes the soft case better than do the shorter magazines, and if I pick up the pistol first, I find half the time that the magazines are spilling out onto the ground below. Without a magazine of ammo in the gun, the gun is an expensive rock. So, I trained myself to grab a loaded magazine FIRST. The same with grabbing a cleaning patch before I take a ramrod out of the pipes after making a quick shot. :hmm:
paulvallandigham
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Mark: It sounds now, that you have the wrong size, or shape to your cleaning jag. I don't have any problem with leaving cleaning patches in the barrel, nor with my jag catching on the edge of a patch and pulling the PRB back out of the barrel.
If you put the jag in the chuck of a drill press, you can use a file to reduce the diameter of the forward band, then less so the middle band, and leave the rearmost band at current diameter, unless it seems to be able to catch a patch. Just a few thousandths difference in the bands seems to eliminate the problems you describe.
I will pull my rifle out and measure the jag, and the jag on my range rod and give you the dimensions, for both the barrel and the jags. That might give you a suggestion on how much clearance should be left between the bore and the outside diameter of the jag.
If you put the jag in the chuck of a drill press, you can use a file to reduce the diameter of the forward band, then less so the middle band, and leave the rearmost band at current diameter, unless it seems to be able to catch a patch. Just a few thousandths difference in the bands seems to eliminate the problems you describe.
I will pull my rifle out and measure the jag, and the jag on my range rod and give you the dimensions, for both the barrel and the jags. That might give you a suggestion on how much clearance should be left between the bore and the outside diameter of the jag.
Stormrider51
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Not to sound like I'm siding with Paul and ganging up but...I've never seen a ball pulled back out of the bore by a jag or anything else short of a ball-puller. And doing it with the ball-puller takes a fair amount of effort. That would have to be one really loose-fitting ball/patch combo! Sounds like one more good reason to cut patches at the muzzle when loading. Nothing left hanging out to snag.
Stomr
Stomr
If historical accuracy is an issue that might mean, no short starter, no patch knife, no Tresco metal ramrod tips, & no Tresco cleaning jags in the field. One might have a tow worm.
Personal safety (and that of bystanders) is paramount to me and would prevent me from ever loading with a cleaning jag.
Personal safety (and that of bystanders) is paramount to me and would prevent me from ever loading with a cleaning jag.
paulvallandigham
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Mark: I measured both the cleaning jags I have for my GM .50 caliber rifle barrel. The one on the ramrod was bought first, and is .470" in diameter, straight back. Its a bit tight, and needs to be reduced.
The jag on my range rod, bought later, is .424 on the front band, .436 on the middle band, and .440 on the rear-most band. It works just fine. I need to follow my own advice with the first jag, and chuck it in my hand drill, held in the vise, and then use a file to reduce the diameter of those bands so its easier to use in loading and cleaning the barrel. :thumbsup:
The jag on my range rod, bought later, is .424 on the front band, .436 on the middle band, and .440 on the rear-most band. It works just fine. I need to follow my own advice with the first jag, and chuck it in my hand drill, held in the vise, and then use a file to reduce the diameter of those bands so its easier to use in loading and cleaning the barrel. :thumbsup:
Stormrider51
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We all do what works for us and has proven safe for our applications. Close to fifty years ago I never used a rod with a screw-in jag. Heck, I hadn't even seen one. We had the rod in the rifle that was used for loading/wiping between shots and another of larger diameter and greater length that was used for cleaning/loading/wiping between shots. One was used for hunting where shots were few and the other was for shooting on the range where we might shoot all day. Both had a "jag" on one end. The jag was carved into the tip of the rod with a knife. That was for wiping. The other end of both rods was used for loading and typically had a metal reinforcement, often a spent case from a metallic cartridge, attached to prevent splitting of the wooden rod.
As for things you shouldn't have during re-enactments, better include the ramrod itself. We banned those from the Gonzales "Come and Take It" and the Lockhart "Battle of Plum Creek" shows after one pilgrim left the ramrod in the barrel and fired it at another actor. Luckily, he missed.
Storm
As for things you shouldn't have during re-enactments, better include the ramrod itself. We banned those from the Gonzales "Come and Take It" and the Lockhart "Battle of Plum Creek" shows after one pilgrim left the ramrod in the barrel and fired it at another actor. Luckily, he missed.
Storm
