Lock or trigger problems?

[john p. madaus]

I hope someone can help me. I have a TVM Virginia rifle with a large siler lock. The problem I am having is that when I **** the **** then pull set trigger I either need to pull set trigger twice or pull front trigger twice to drop hammer. It's as if it stops again at half **** and I need to start procedure again? Lock seems to work correctly when removed from rifle. Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[B.Habermehl]

You have several different possible causes, over snug lock bolts, wood inference with the sear, over snug tang bolt, or a combination of these. Plus set trigger adjustment. Look at lock bolt tourque, and wood interferences first. Good luck BJH

 

[ghostdncr]

Is the fly, by chance, missing from the tumbler? That may cause exactly what you're describing, if I'm reading and understanding your post correctly.

 

[Zonie]

There seems to be several things happening here and I'm not sure I fully understand what is happening.

Does the lock release normally when you just pull the front trigger or do you have to pull the front trigger twice?

I'm not sure what's causing the set trigger problem but it is possible that the screw between the triggers is turned too far in.
You might try backing that little screw out a few turns to see if this doesn't fix the problem with having to pull the rear set trigger twice to get it to hold in the set position.

The lock falling only to half **** when the rear set trigger releases it indicates a problem with the "fly".
The fly, a very small piece located in the locks tumbler is supposed to keep the sear from entering the half **** notch when the hammer is falling.
If it is gummed up or missing, it can't do its job.

If the rear set trigger fails to release the lock from the full **** position it is possible that some stock wood is rubbing against the blade as the rear trigger snaps forward when it is released.
If this happens, the triggers inertia can be lost, greatly reducing the force being applied to the lock sear.

The lock sear arm that protrudes from the lockface may be rubbing against the clearance hole that is drilled in the stock. That can make it difficult to move and the rear set triggers inertia may not be enough to overcome the sears resistance to movement.
(Often the hole for the sear arm is not drilled deep enough so the very end of the sear arm rubs against the bottom of the hole.)

I think I need more information to give a better answer.

 

[john p. madaus]

When brought to full **** I have three choices to trip ****, pull set trigger pull set trigger pull front trigger, pull set trigger pull front trigger pull front trigger or just pull front trigger. I have tried screw between triggers in various positions. I hope this all makes sense.

 

[M. De Land]

It sounds to me like the kick off spring of the set trigger that pushes the trigger lever that whacks the sear arm is not set strong enough or is set all the way and is still not strong enough.

 

[Zonie]

When brought to full **** I have three choices to trip ****, pull set trigger pull set trigger pull front trigger, pull set trigger pull front trigger pull front trigger or just pull front trigger. I have tried screw between triggers in various positions. I hope this all makes sense.

Very strange.
You should have only two choices.
1. A very hard pull on the front trigger should release the lock. The pull can be anywhere between 4 and 10+ pounds.

2. A hard pull on the spring loaded rear "set" trigger should "set" it and just a light touch on the front trigger should release the rear trigger and fire the gun.
Once the rear trigger is "set" it only takes a force of a few ounces to pull the front trigger and get the gun to fire. Because of this, some call it a "hair trigger".

When trying to "set" the spring loaded rear trigger, do you hear a little "click" and does the rear trigger stay back where you had to pull it to get the little "click" sound?

If you do not hear a little "click" sound either you did not pull the rear trigger far enough back or, the screw between the two triggers is screwed in too far.
That little screw adjusts the amount of engagement the front trigger has with the catch on the rear trigger. If it is screwed in too far, the front trigger won't latch onto the rear triggers catch to hold it in place.

If you did not pull the spring loaded rear trigger back far enough, the front trigger's catch will never engage the rear trigger's latch.
Some rear triggers like the one on the Lyman Great Plains Rifle (or Hunter) have a very strong spring and it takes a strong pull to get them to set.

Properly "set", just a very light touch on the front trigger should release the spring loaded rear "set" trigger and fire the gun.

 

[Many Klatch]

Try loosening the screws in the lock just a bit. If the screws are machinist tight the lock will need a couple of taps from the set trigger to finally move the sear far enough to go off. Don't snug all the screws down and the lock should work just fine.

 

[Tom Compton]

Try loosening the screws in the lock just a bit. If the screws are machinist tight the lock will need a couple of taps from the set trigger to finally move the sear far enough to go off. Don't snug all the screws down and the lock should work just fine.

10-4. Especially the bridle screws and more especially the screw thru the bridle and sear. W the lock out of the stock and the sear spring removed the sear should move freely. Then reinstall the spring and mount the lock in the mortise.
TC

 

[john p. madaus]

Thanks to all who have helpfully replied. Loosening tang bolt seemed to help some. Still when brought to full **** to fire requires set trigger pull which does click then when pull front trigger **** moves slightly with click then if I pull front trigger again drops normaly to strike frizzen.

 

[Tom Compton]

Need thought. Pull the triggers and tighten the main spring so the rear bar will hit the trigger sear w more force.
TC

 

[Artificer]

It sounds to me like the kick off spring of the set trigger that pushes the trigger lever that whacks the sear arm is not set strong enough or is set all the way and is still not strong enough.

I was thinking the same thing.

A couple of years ago, a man brought one of the Pedersoli Target Pistols to me to fix basically the same thing. I asked him if he had done ANYTHING beyond screwing the adjusting screw in and out and he replied he did not. Well, I could not get it corrected at the show, so I took it home.

I tried everything I knew and it wasn't fixing the problem until I began loosening and tightening different screws. I almost did not tighten the screw that caused the kick off spring to have more pressure, so that was one of the last things I did and it fixed the problem. I may not even have thought of doing it, except the screw slot was buggered a bit.

OK, when I returned the pistol to the owner, I asked him if he had loosened that screw and showed him the screw and only then did he remember doing it. I then informed him to stop randomly doing things he did not understand, but wait till he could better research it and find out what would cause problems, before he did it.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Try loosening the screws in the lock just a bit. If the screws are machinist tight the lock will need a couple of taps from the set trigger to finally move the sear far enough to go off. Don't snug all the screws down and the lock should work just fine.

10-4. Especially the bridle screws and more especially the screw thru the bridle and sear. W the lock out of the stock and the sear spring removed the sear should move freely. Then reinstall the spring and mount the lock in the mortise.
TC

I'll add a :thumbsup: to that. I admit it was strange to me back in 1974 when I was first learning to work on locks, that the bridle screw and especially the sear screw can not be tightened down fully on most locks without causing the parts to jam up. They have to be backed off just enough so the parts can move freely.

I have forgotten how many locks since that time where the only or main problem was when the owner mistakenly tightened these screws down tight.

Gus

 

[john p. madaus]

I assume this means I have to remove the triggers from the stock?

 

[Artificer]

Yes it does, because one should rule out problems until you find what is causing the problem.

It may also be that the triggers were inlet too deep and you need to place shims under them to give enough space to free things up.

Gus