Lock problems

[capt_turk]

I've got a Traditions Frontier 50 cal. flintlock. Long story short, the lock spend about a month laying in a water puddle and was a rusted beyond repair. I replaced the lock with a new one, and I can't seem to get it to work right. It works fine out of the gun, or with the trigger removed. It's a double set trigger. When I put it all together, the hammer won't cock. It pulls back ok, but won't catch at half or full cock, or if it does catch, it's only barely and will release with even the slightest touch or bump.

When I took the trigger out, I found that there is a screw under the front end of the trigger plate. It looks like they must have cut the trigger inlet too deep, and put a screw there to hold the trigger plate up where it should be. I've tried backing the screw out and it helps. I've backed it out till the trigger guard is standing proud of the stock, but that doesn't seem to be quite enough.

I tried filing down the top of the blades on the trigger a bit, an it seemed to help, but I'm afraid of taking too much off and ruining the trigger.

Can I file the underside of the sear to get more clearance with out weakening it too much? Or, does anyone have any other suggestions?

 

[Herb]

Cut up your credit card and ship the trigger out.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Will it cock with the triggers set? If so you need only adjust the triggers to reduce the "lift", the amount the mainspring raises the set trigger. Otherwise, you may have to adjust the lock by bending the sear arm, the part which contacts the trigger blades, upward just a bit. Whatever you do there should be some slack in both triggers when the lock is at half-cock.

 

[capt_turk]

It will sort of cock, sometimes, with the triggers set. It feels like the sear is being held up too far, and not letting it drop into the notch all the way. I've spaced the trigger out, and it will cock ok, but that makes the trigger guard stand proud of the stock by close to an eighth of an inch.

I set the old and new locks together, and the sear on the new lock looks to be about an sixteenth plus lower than the old one. I'm about afraid to try to bend the sear, as I am hesitant to disassemble the lock. I have no way to really heat it without taking it apart. That's why I was wondering about grinding a little off the bottom of the sear.

 

[Tom Compton]

trim either the sear lever on the lock or the top of the triggers to allow clearance for proper functioning.
TC

 

[mazo kid]

Hi Charles, I would suggest the filing of the top of the trigger bar. You can put a transfer agent (inletting black, lipstick, etc) on the sear arm to let you know where the bar is contacting the sear arm. File very carefully and check the fit every few file strokes. The sear arm should be heated to bend it and it will be harder to know when "this much" is too much. By filing the top of the trigger bar you have much more control. Have you thought about replacing the sear on the new lock with the old one? They are not hard to replace.

 

[Rogue River]

I think your triggers are inletted too deep! Try shimmin them with some small washers.

 

[MSW]

had a similar problem with one of my builds... did essentially what MazoKid recommends (although probably not as elegant as his solution) and it worked out well.

By the way, if you have access to a copy, check out what Peter Alexander has to say about trigger geometry in his book The Gunsmith of Grenville County

best of luck!

 

[ebiggs1]

"I think your triggers are inletted too deep! Try shimmin them with some small washers"

I agree with this statement. Do this first BEFORE you file on anything.

 

[capt_turk]

The problem is that I've already shimmed the trigger plate out so far that the trigger guard is sticking up above the wood of the stock so far that there is almost nothing left in the inletting. That is why I was wondering about grinding the sear.
The original lock worked perfectly with everything flush to the wood. The only thing I've changed is the lock itself. The new lock came from Traditions as a direct replacement.
I looked at the old lock to see about using the old sear. It is so rusted and pitted that I would be afraid to use it.

 

[Zonie]

Don't file the sear arm unless it's a last resort.

First off, it is usually hardened along with the rest of the sear so it will ruin your file.

With the rear trigger "set" and the trigger assembly installed in its normal position will the lock hold at full cock? If it does, that would indicate the front triggers blade is not interfering with the sear arm.

If the lock won't go to full cock with the rear trigger "set" it indicates the front, and possibly the rear trigger blades are too high.

You can file either or both of these down to the point where only about 1/8 inch of height is left of them and they will still work fine. Actually, the front trigger blade could go down to about 3/32 and it would still be strong enough to operate the sear.

If you have reduced the height of the trigger blades to the minimum sizes I mentioned then you can start thinking about grinding the bottom of the sear arm.

 

[ebiggs1]

Have you compared the two locks and triggers side by side? There must be a visible difference. Again, I am against filing on anything until you are sure.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

To remove the sear, first loosen the screw which retains the sear spring and pop that spring free of its' detente in the plate. That removes all tension on the sear. Then remove the sear pivot screw and the sear will drop out. Clamp the sear in a vise with just the projecting arm exposed. Heat the arm to a dull red and bend upward just a few degrees and allow it to cool. The vise jaws act as a heat sink to prevent heating the nose of the sear, the only part which really needs to be hard. Reinstall the sear and pivot screw, press the spring down into the detente and tighten the screw. That should do it.
You should learn how to completely disassemble your lock to be prepared should the need arise.
The only "trick" in completely stripping the lock is the "fly" in the tumbler. If you forget or don't know it's there it is easilly lost.

 

[capt_turk]

I had to come back to work on the tug, so I won't be able to try anything on the lock for at least a couple of weeks. I'll look at it some more when I get back ashore..

Sometimes I hate having to be a responsible adult.. :cursing: Much more fun staying home and playing with my toys.. :haha:

 

[roundball]

This potentially has disaster written all over it...don't screw with it and end up voiding the warranty...contact the manufacturer...tell them the new lock you just bought has a problem and you need to return/exchange it.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Oh for Pete's sake, anyone who has ever built a gun has had to modify components to get them to work properly. It's scary business only to one who has never done anything with their own hands. :shake:

 

[roundball]

Oh for Pete's sake, anyone who has ever built a gun has had to modify components to get them to work properly. It's scary business only to one who has never done anything with their own hands. :shake:

Do you really think all that was called for CJ?

Are only YOUR opinions the ones that should ever be considered?

Reread the posts a little more carefully...then reread your post just now.

And I'll save the "rolling eyes" icon for your use

:thumbsup:

 

[capt_turk]

First off, I'm not worried about any warranty. The replacement lock was less than a hundred bucks, so no big deal if I trash it completely. It's a toy, anyway.

I've always been of the opinion that you pays for an edumaction. I've never been just a parts changer in anything I've ever done. I have always preferred to try to figure out a solution to the problem, and fix it with what I had, and if necessary, fabricate a new one.

My problem is not being familiar enough with how gun mechanisms work. I'm learning quickly, and given a bit more time, I figure I'll be able to build the whole thing from scratch.

I did the same with my trains. I bought a steam locomotive and studied how it worked. I did a lot of research, and two years after buying it, I had built my own railroad, a locomotive, rail cars, and several steam engines.

The link to my railroad website.
http://www.raspberrygulch.org

I've always gotten a lot more enjoyment from building, and learning, than from using.

 

[MSW]

neat looking railroad!

 

[capt_turk]

So the sear is hardened. Anyone know if it is hardened all the way through, or case hardened?