I have a lock that wont fall past halfcock. It cocks all the way, though it doesnt have a distinct click for full cock and the let off is real light. It looks like there is hardly a step on the sear for full cock so trigger pull is around 2 pounds at most. Then it just falls into half cock and stays there. I have to pull the trigger and pull back on the cock and lift it manually out of halfcock to lower it. Ive taken it out of the stock and examined it, but I dont know what to look for. Its not an inleting problem as it does it free of the stock. Is it a spring that is too strong, of something out of position, or is it a piece of manure?
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Lock wont fall past halfcock.
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paulvallandigham
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What kind of lock? sounds like you could be either missing the " fly " or it was installed backwards.
For a good look at the internal parts of a lock, and where the " fly " is located, see:
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/percterm.html
This is Bob Spenser's Black Powder Notebook, a very good source of on-line information.
For a good look at the internal parts of a lock, and where the " fly " is located, see:
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/percterm.html
This is Bob Spenser's Black Powder Notebook, a very good source of on-line information.
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varsity07840
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paulvallandigham said:
Paul:
A number of years ago I bought a new custom flinter through TOW that had the same problem. Given what I paid for it, and being a bit miffed
I sent it back telling them to fix it or give me a refund, rather than tinker with it myself. Dave called me the day they got it and told me it was a minor problem, the fly was installed backwards.
I didn't think anything of it at the time, just wanting the rifle back, but later it occured to me, how do you put a fly in backwards? Would that mean that the stem is to the outside, rather than in the hole in the tumbler? Believe me, I'm not being a wise guy, just curious.
Regards,
Duane
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paulvallandigham
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Duane: My Cochran and Siler locks have the pivot pin fixed to the fly, so it can't be put in backwards. However, there are some locks out there, where the pin is fixed to the tumbler, and there is only a small hole for the pin drilled through the triangular shaped " fly". Those can be put on backwards, easily.
I don't recall the manufacturer of the lock that I worked on, but such locks are out there. ( The owner was very embarrassed that I found his problem so easily, but I assured him that as simple as it may have looked, I could not have known what to look for it if another shooter had not shown me the cause of the problem years ago. ) :hmm: :thumbsup:
I don't recall the manufacturer of the lock that I worked on, but such locks are out there. ( The owner was very embarrassed that I found his problem so easily, but I assured him that as simple as it may have looked, I could not have known what to look for it if another shooter had not shown me the cause of the problem years ago. ) :hmm: :thumbsup:
Here is a pic. Its an Indian Night Special. This seems to be the only problem with it. I havent cleaned it yet. Its still covered in cosmoline. It seems to have a burr on the lip of the half cock and the sear face has a slight angle to it.
paulvallandigham
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In addition, I can see that the horn of the tumbler is also rubbing on the lockplate. NOT GOOD! Send it back.
Even if your lock was made with out a fly, it should fall from full cock WITHOUT catching in the half cock notch. It sounds to me like you need to grind a bit from the bottom of the tumbler so that it can rotate freely on past half cock. I would also take a stone to the full cock notch and make it perpendicular to the face of the sear; if you don't feel safe doing this then take it to a gunsmith who is familiar with side locks.
Several of my L&R locks have a small post cast (or pressed) into the pocket where the fly fits. The fly has a hole in it to fit over this pin.
With these locks it is entirely possible to install the fly backwards and when first looking at the little thing it looks almost symmetrical. It isn't.
Anyone working on a lock that uses a fly with a hole in it needs to be aware of this possible assembly error.
That simply means that when the bridle and sear spring are replaced and before replacing the mainspring the cock or hammer should be operated thru its cycle to make sure the fly is working like it should.
With these locks it is entirely possible to install the fly backwards and when first looking at the little thing it looks almost symmetrical. It isn't.
Anyone working on a lock that uses a fly with a hole in it needs to be aware of this possible assembly error.
That simply means that when the bridle and sear spring are replaced and before replacing the mainspring the cock or hammer should be operated thru its cycle to make sure the fly is working like it should.
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Sadly i noticed that the rear screw that holds the lock on to the arm and also the top bridal screw has gouged into the dog, not trimmed to say the least.. at least that is what it looks like, i have had to fix a few locks looking like that.
Here are my options it seems.
1....Send this back and hope the replacement gets here before Xmas.
2... Send off the lock to someone that knows how to fix it and maybe get it back in a couple of weeks.
3....Fix it myself and prove what a manly stud I am.
4... Fix it myself, maybe screwing it up and listen to the wife nag that I should have sent it back.
Help!
1....Send this back and hope the replacement gets here before Xmas.
2... Send off the lock to someone that knows how to fix it and maybe get it back in a couple of weeks.
3....Fix it myself and prove what a manly stud I am.
4... Fix it myself, maybe screwing it up and listen to the wife nag that I should have sent it back.
Help!
I have seen several that when tightened in place would have so little clearence below lip of sear where it engages tumbler the sear would hang on half cock.Steal some lipstick from your wife and smear the sear and see if this could be the case .
varsity07840
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paulvallandigham said:
After reading these posts, the answer to my question is clear, as the lock on my rifle is indeed an L&R. I have two rifles with the same lock and never took either apart. I assumed they had the same fly set up as my Silers, which I have disassembled. Thanks for the reply.
Duane
Nothing personal, but this looks like a very cheap & poorly made lock. Doing a little measuring on your photo, it appears the bottom edge of the half cock notch is higher than the almost non-existent full cock. Don't think you can jerk the trigger fast enough to get clearance for the sear to pass over the half cock notch. This is a major problem and a fault of improper manufacture. Could maybe be fixed by someone who knows how to true the tumbler up, recut the notches, & reharden (if it's even hardened). Other than that, about all I can offer is sympathy.
Needs a new tumbler and sear.
I have a gunsmith friend thats gonna take a look at it, but I think its a dud. Too bad as I rather like the feel of the piece and I like that style weapon. Its a bit hard to find a decent British Dragoon for a reasonable price. I dont have the jack for a custom piece and no one else makes a copy of the patterns Im looking for.
Oh by the way, I didnt get it from MVT. He at least inspects his stuff before sending it out the door. Unfortunatly they didnt have anything in stock when I called.
Oh by the way, I didnt get it from MVT. He at least inspects his stuff before sending it out the door. Unfortunatly they didnt have anything in stock when I called.
As you inquired, it may be a piece of manure. You mentioned “Indian Night Special” does that mean it is made in “India?” If this lock was indeed made in India you may have
Quality problems. Right off clean the inside of the lock real quick Try break cleaner,
choke cleaner, starting fluid if you don’t have either of the first two (protect you skin when using any of this stuff). Just try and get the cosmo off it and out of the contact
areas. (don’t get nuts and disassemble the lock). Next apply lubricant to the lock.
Spay stuff is the easiest. Rem oil, Outer’s lub, 3 in 1 oil, heck even Wd-40 for this
Part of the check. Then get some Vaseline petroleum jelly and apply liberally to the
Tumbler, sear, Work it in to the nukes and crannies, move the hammer back and forth
Make sure the sear and tumble are greased. Replace the lock and give it a try. Some times that will get things to move a little more, . . . depending on the contact tolerances. It’s not a fix, just a check-zee thing. (It may improve things for five cockings, if your lucky and hold your tongue just right.) If you are indeed a newbee to lock smithing. Have someone with lock experience take a look at it. Some times they can be worked over, a little bit a filing here and there an it works (that’s where experience and knowledge will pay off on the “here and there areas.”) Some times a part might need to be hardened after rework. That’s best left to someone with a little bit more knowledge of the smithing arts.
Quality problems. Right off clean the inside of the lock real quick Try break cleaner,
choke cleaner, starting fluid if you don’t have either of the first two (protect you skin when using any of this stuff). Just try and get the cosmo off it and out of the contact
areas. (don’t get nuts and disassemble the lock). Next apply lubricant to the lock.
Spay stuff is the easiest. Rem oil, Outer’s lub, 3 in 1 oil, heck even Wd-40 for this
Part of the check. Then get some Vaseline petroleum jelly and apply liberally to the
Tumbler, sear, Work it in to the nukes and crannies, move the hammer back and forth
Make sure the sear and tumble are greased. Replace the lock and give it a try. Some times that will get things to move a little more, . . . depending on the contact tolerances. It’s not a fix, just a check-zee thing. (It may improve things for five cockings, if your lucky and hold your tongue just right.) If you are indeed a newbee to lock smithing. Have someone with lock experience take a look at it. Some times they can be worked over, a little bit a filing here and there an it works (that’s where experience and knowledge will pay off on the “here and there areas.”) Some times a part might need to be hardened after rework. That’s best left to someone with a little bit more knowledge of the smithing arts.
