duelist1954
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I put together a video on 200-yard rifle shooting that some of you may enjoy.
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Long Range Flintlock Rifle Shooting video
- Thread starter duelist1954
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Cruzatte
50 Cal.
I'm impressed by the fact you were able to hold steady enough to hit your target one out of two shots at that distance.
I liked it I’m going to try this next year for my antelope hunt.
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Liked the video and especially enjoyed your quip about "channeling Tim Murphy," before you shot.
There is one more way to get more elevation for longer range, others have mentioned on the forum, and that is not only use the bottom of the front sight blade at the top of the rear sight, but in addition - take some of the barrel behind the front sight on top of the rear sight. Not sure how useful that would have been as it would have been difficult to get a consistent amount of barrel over the rear sight and it probably would only work from a rest, though.
I have wondered for a long time if AWI period Riflemen filed their front sights down further to get extended range, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation on it. Still, your video proves it would have worked.
The sight pictures you superimposed over the targets are very helpful to many people who may otherwise have a difficult time envisioning it from word text only.
Yes, one out of two shots for the first time you shot offhand at 200 yards is a very good start!
Gus
There is one more way to get more elevation for longer range, others have mentioned on the forum, and that is not only use the bottom of the front sight blade at the top of the rear sight, but in addition - take some of the barrel behind the front sight on top of the rear sight. Not sure how useful that would have been as it would have been difficult to get a consistent amount of barrel over the rear sight and it probably would only work from a rest, though.
I have wondered for a long time if AWI period Riflemen filed their front sights down further to get extended range, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation on it. Still, your video proves it would have worked.
The sight pictures you superimposed over the targets are very helpful to many people who may otherwise have a difficult time envisioning it from word text only.
Yes, one out of two shots for the first time you shot offhand at 200 yards is a very good start!
Gus
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Very nicely done between your explanations and the charts. I seldom shoot beyond 100 yards but now I'm tempted to set up one of the rifles for 200 yards just to see what I can do. Always enjoy your videos.
Jeff
Jeff
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Very educational and darn right enjoyable!!!
Thank you for sharing that with us my friend!
Respectfully, Cowboy
Thank you for sharing that with us my friend!
Respectfully, Cowboy
Just getting back here to view your experiment. Most interesting. You are using a (lovely!) swivel breech...would that not make the matter more difficult? In effect, you are using two "different" rifles (on the same butt stock). I did see you switch the barrels. I know we have discussed your swivel breech before (but I'm writing from a sickbed, and have never had luck with the Search engine) are both barrels rifled? the usual swivel breech has one rifle and one smoothbore (in my limited experience).
As always, your videos are entertaining and informative.
Richard/Grumpa
As always, your videos are entertaining and informative.
Richard/Grumpa
duelist1954
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Both barrels are rifled, .54 caliber. I'm not sure how much more common the rifled/smooth combination was. I do know that Timothy Murphy's swivel breach rifle, built in 1776, had both barrels rifled.
I only watched about half of the video. Too much there I didn't agree with. i.e. zero at 200 yards. Gimmee a break. A lot of shooters couldn't hit a barn at that distance. Literally.
And yet all of the disagreement in the world didn't stop a rifleman from shooting the target at 200 yards with a first round hit.
The fact that some people can't do a thing, doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be done by those who can.
Sadly you are right. But the muzzleloader silhouette shooters, know that its not only possible to hit the 200 yard target, the more you practice the easier it becomes.
duelist1954
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Well then, the shooters who couldn't hit a barn won't need to zero at 200 yards. 25-yards makes more sense for them.
But, if you do plan to make 100 to 200 yard shots routinely, then a 200-yard zero works better than a 100-yard zero. I'm not saying that's the only way to do it, but it is a way that works. I didn't invent it. I got it from reading Jack O'Connor back in the 1960s in "Outdoor Life". Also I notice that several 19th century military rifles I own have their "Battle Sight": setting regulated for 200 to 275 yards, I assume for the same reason.
Back in the day, according to accounts written by British officers who were being shot at, American riflemen shot from a rest, or they shot prone.
British accounts say that most riflemen could make a 200-yard head shot every time, if they had a good rest, and that they could score a hit at 300 yards, unless it was very windy.
I can attest, that with a 200 yard zero, and shooting from a rest, even a poor rifleman like me can put every shot into the vital area of a silhouette target, and I can hit head shots more often than not.
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I grew up hunting mostly with a shotgun, though sometimes with a .22 rifle for squirrels and a .22 pistol for racoons.
When I went to Marine Corps Boot Camp in 1971, I had only fired a high power rifle a few times. I had never fired at 200 yards and certainly not Offhand at that distance. Yet after a week of some of the most physically demanding Basic Marksmanship Instruction anywhere, we had to fire 10 rounds Offhand at 200 yards and with using a hasty sling each day we shot the Known Distance Qualification Course. On Qualification Day (the fifth day of firing the Known Distance Course), I ran 7 straight Bullseyes before I fired another Bullseye, but on the target next to mine, instead of my own. After that initial qualification, they changed the course to only 5 rounds Offhand at 200 yards, but from then on with no sling. The size of the Bullseyes were either 10 inches or 12 inches, depending on what year/s the Qualification/Requalification course was fired. From the time of my third Annual Qualification, I could count on hitting the Bullseye at 200 yards Offhand (no sling) most of the time. Within 6 years, I could count on hitting the Bullseye every time from the Offhand at 200 yards. So it is not only possible for people to do it, there are many people who do it every year.
The Army used the same Known Distance course at least till the mid/late 1960's. I don't know when they changed to Pop Up targets after that.
The reason for teaching Offhand shooting in the military is because the land between you and the enemy is probably not going to be dead flat. So if you need stand up so you can see the enemy, when there are small hills or other obstructions between you and the enemy, you can actually fire and hit effectively.
Now of course we had modern adjustable sights, but following Duelist's and/or my suggestions on how to zero a rifle, it could just as easily be done with a flintlock Rifle Gun with fixed sights.
The problem with using a Flintlock at long range on the battlefield was/is both the amount of wind and how to effectively "Hold Higher" for longer ranges. Further, once the opposing sides began firing and when standing on the ground, you could not see much beyond your own battle lines because of the clouds of smoke from the Black Powder. In many/most of the accounts of Morgan's Riflemen at Saratoga, they relate how Riflemen climbed into the trees to shoot. That because they could see and shoot at the enemy over the clouds of black powder smoke from their own battle line firing.
Gus
When I went to Marine Corps Boot Camp in 1971, I had only fired a high power rifle a few times. I had never fired at 200 yards and certainly not Offhand at that distance. Yet after a week of some of the most physically demanding Basic Marksmanship Instruction anywhere, we had to fire 10 rounds Offhand at 200 yards and with using a hasty sling each day we shot the Known Distance Qualification Course. On Qualification Day (the fifth day of firing the Known Distance Course), I ran 7 straight Bullseyes before I fired another Bullseye, but on the target next to mine, instead of my own. After that initial qualification, they changed the course to only 5 rounds Offhand at 200 yards, but from then on with no sling. The size of the Bullseyes were either 10 inches or 12 inches, depending on what year/s the Qualification/Requalification course was fired. From the time of my third Annual Qualification, I could count on hitting the Bullseye at 200 yards Offhand (no sling) most of the time. Within 6 years, I could count on hitting the Bullseye every time from the Offhand at 200 yards. So it is not only possible for people to do it, there are many people who do it every year.
The Army used the same Known Distance course at least till the mid/late 1960's. I don't know when they changed to Pop Up targets after that.
The reason for teaching Offhand shooting in the military is because the land between you and the enemy is probably not going to be dead flat. So if you need stand up so you can see the enemy, when there are small hills or other obstructions between you and the enemy, you can actually fire and hit effectively.
Now of course we had modern adjustable sights, but following Duelist's and/or my suggestions on how to zero a rifle, it could just as easily be done with a flintlock Rifle Gun with fixed sights.
The problem with using a Flintlock at long range on the battlefield was/is both the amount of wind and how to effectively "Hold Higher" for longer ranges. Further, once the opposing sides began firing and when standing on the ground, you could not see much beyond your own battle lines because of the clouds of smoke from the Black Powder. In many/most of the accounts of Morgan's Riflemen at Saratoga, they relate how Riflemen climbed into the trees to shoot. That because they could see and shoot at the enemy over the clouds of black powder smoke from their own battle line firing.
Gus
Gus,
You have the experience of being around some of the best shooters in the country, National Champions and winners. I realize that it's moving away from the OP in a sense, but if you were to give a one sentence or however many, what would you say the difference is between those that hit what they aim at and those who don't.
Thanks,
You have the experience of being around some of the best shooters in the country, National Champions and winners. I realize that it's moving away from the OP in a sense, but if you were to give a one sentence or however many, what would you say the difference is between those that hit what they aim at and those who don't.
Thanks,
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Hi JM,
In a nutshell; it requires good marksmanship fundamentals/techniques and practice, Practice, PRACTICE!!! That practice includes a regimen of dry firing most every night with the gun or guns that one shoots and of course actual live fire practice, as much as one can get.
If folks spent the winter dry firing 10 shots offhand most every night, they would start the shooting season in the Spring, ahead of many, if not most of their competitors.
Gus
In a nutshell; it requires good marksmanship fundamentals/techniques and practice, Practice, PRACTICE!!! That practice includes a regimen of dry firing most every night with the gun or guns that one shoots and of course actual live fire practice, as much as one can get.
If folks spent the winter dry firing 10 shots offhand most every night, they would start the shooting season in the Spring, ahead of many, if not most of their competitors.
Gus
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Duelist1954,
I enjoyed the video. When you were shooting groups; what swabbing of the barrel did you do between shots?
Thanks
I enjoyed the video. When you were shooting groups; what swabbing of the barrel did you do between shots?
Thanks
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Just because YOU can't do something doesn't mean it can't be done. Most have never tried it, and some don't have the ability... but MOST do.
At the BRM course at Ft. Sill we shot pop up targets out to 600 METERS using IRON SIGHTS. People who haven't shot irons can't believe it, but it happens.
On the Basic Patrol Rifle Course we shot using iron sights only out to 250 yards day and 100 yards at NIGHT using a 60 watt bulb suspended over the target for light. All shots went into a B27 target, no pass, no carry.
Yes, they are modern weapons, but used iron sights. And the night quals were TOUGH... most including me had to reshoot.
duelist1954
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None. I don't usually swab between shots.
Nice job with the video. I also enjoy long range shooting and I use the sight base aiming method. It allows the rifle to be zeroed at a normal shooting range and with practice you can hold up the right amount of front sight to hit at varying longer distances. Many years ago I shot hand gun metallic silhouette competition and this method worked well out to 200 meters. Did you build the swivel breech? It does not quite look like one of Leonard Day's.
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