long range target shooting

[Robyn]

Hi everyone. :bow:
I usually lurk in the background on this forum, just reading the posts and learning a hell of a lot.
Today I have a question for all you good people.
I want to get a rifle for target shooting at 100 and 200 yards, and twice yearly up to 1000 yards.
In my price range I can only find 3 rifles that may fill this tall order, Namely the Euroarms, Whitworth, three band volunteer or the two band volunteer. all come with either whitworth or henery rifling. Now the 64 dollar question, in your own opinions and experience which do you think is the best rifle of the three. I have had bad experiences with the pedersoli gibbs and tryton and not interested in them...besides that I can not see value for money with the pedersoli rifles.
any help will be greatly appreciated.
regards to all
Robyn (australia) :v

 

[zrifleman]

You just shot yourself in the foot. The Pedersoli Gibbs is a great value for the money! It is designed for long range shooting and hold something like 22 world records. Build your own, if you can but you will spend at least that much money.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

How big is the bull at 1000 yds?

It would have to be the size of a house for me.

 

[Jason Lewis]

the only choices you have for long range shooting is the pedersoli gibbs, which comes out of the box ready except for a platinum lined nipple. the euroarms whitworth which i shoot, you will have to add a long range rear sight, either a neumann or holbrook. and a long range front sight and then bed the barrel as there is no bedding and the barrel channel is way too deep. a great rifle though. and lastly the rigby kit from pecatonica is a great choice as well. the volunteer rifles all have a too slow twist for long range, at mid range they are fine. what problems did you have with the gibbs?

 

[Jason Lewis]

How big is the bull at 1000 yds?

It would have to be the size of a house for me.

the 10 ring is a little bigger than a basket ball.

 

[ResearchPress]

The Henry rifled Volunteer is an excellent rifle at mid-range (out to 600 yards). Beyond that it can be made to shoot well in good conditions, but I have not seen consistently good results with it at long range and particularly 1000 yards. the Whitworth may have the edge at 900/1000 yards. I don't know what pitch rifling Euroarms use.

As has been pointed out, you will need to budget for upgrading sights to get the best from these rifles. Since the Gibbs came on the market I seldom see them in use at long range, either here in the UK or in MLAIC World Championships.

FWIW, I held the MLAGB National Record for 600 yards for several years shot with a two-band Parker-Hale Volunteer with Henry rifling. They can be made to shoot well.

Re. points raised in other posts....

Not sure where the 22 world records come from; there are only five events in which the Gibbs is eligible in the World Long Range Championships, 300, 500, 600, 900 and 1000 yards.

The bull's eye at 1000 yards in the MLAIC World Champs. measures 24" diameter and scores 5.

David

 

[zrifleman]

David---That was according to Dick Trenk, something he posted on ASSRA. I don't go to long range muzzleloading matches as there are none in my area. It's my understanding that PG is widely used in LR ML matches especially in Europe.

 

[TFoley]

the only choices you have for long range shooting is the pedersoli gibbs, which comes out of the box ready except for a platinum lined nipple. the euroarms whitworth which i shoot, you will have to add a long range rear sight, either a neumann or holbrook. and a long range front sight and then bed the barrel as there is no bedding and the barrel channel is way too deep. a great rifle though. and lastly the rigby kit from pecatonica is a great choice as well. the volunteer rifles all have a too slow twist for long range, at mid range they are fine. what problems did you have with the gibbs?

Your statement overlooks the fine craftsmanship of Mr Martin Tebbs, riflemaker of Christchurch, Cambridgeshire UK. His Gibb-style rifles are peerless examples of old-fashioned craftsmanship today.

HIS guns are seen wherever good shooting at long-range is carried out.

All the OP needs is patience [he only builds when there are a few to build] and money [he ain't exactly giving them away].

Ask Mr Minshall how they shoot.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

PS - if he lived in the UK the OP could buy my original Parker-Hale Whitworth, or the genuine Whitworth being offered for sale by a friend of mine in our club [UK interest please PM me].

 

[paulab]

Greetings...The 800-900-1000 yd. N.R.A. regulation LR target bullseye measurements are: X ring is 10 inches in dia. The 10 ring is 20 in. The 9 ring is 30 in. and the 8 ring is 44 in. The white 7 ring is 60 inches in dia. and the rest of the white part of the target is worth 6 points. The entire target is 6X6 feet square. My Gibbs shoots GREAT and I have been present [as match director] when a half dozen national records have been set with them. cheers Paul

 

[ResearchPress]

David---That was according to Dick Trenk, something he posted on ASSRA. I don't go to long range muzzleloading matches as there are none in my area. It's my understanding that PG is widely used in LR ML matches especially in Europe.

Yes, the Gibbs is widely used in Europe but the MLAIC World Long Range Championships only have five matches in which the Gibbs could set a World Record. The Gibbs has been used to set National records, but I fail to see how it could possibly have set 22 World Records. Insofar as I am aware a World Record can only be set at a World Championships. There are other events in which a world record could arguably have been shot besides those of the MLAIC (who are the World governing body for muzzle loading shooting): the World Long Range Historical Rifle Championships and the World Creedmoor Association matches come to mind but these also include BPCR and I don't think the Gibbs has featured strongly (if at all).

Notwithstanding that, the Gibbs is a fine rifle for the money and has done more in recent years to expand participation in LR muzzle loading then any other rifle.

David

 

[Jason Lewis]

the only choices you have for long range shooting is the pedersoli gibbs, which comes out of the box ready except for a platinum lined nipple. the euroarms whitworth which i shoot, you will have to add a long range rear sight, either a neumann or holbrook. and a long range front sight and then bed the barrel as there is no bedding and the barrel channel is way too deep. a great rifle though. and lastly the rigby kit from pecatonica is a great choice as well. the volunteer rifles all have a too slow twist for long range, at mid range they are fine. what problems did you have with the gibbs?

Your statement overlooks the fine craftsmanship of Mr Martin Tebbs, riflemaker of Christchurch, Cambridgeshire UK. His Gibb-style rifles are peerless examples of old-fashioned craftsmanship today.

HIS guns are seen wherever good shooting at long-range is carried out.

All the OP needs is patience [he only builds when there are a few to build] and money [he ain't exactly giving them away].

Ask Mr Minshall how they shoot.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

PS - if he lived in the UK the OP could buy my original Parker-Hale Whitworth, or the genuine Whitworth being offered for sale by a friend of mine in our club [UK interest please PM me].

if i was aware of mr. tebbs, i wouldn't have overlooked him.

 

[broadarrow]

Hi Robyn

I have a couple of Whitworths and they are good rifles, in my opinion any rifle is as good as another it is down to how accurate the owner is prepared to work to make it shoot well. Would I be right in assuming you are the Robyn with the Charleville ? If you like I can add some of what I have posted on other sites on here with what I have used with my Whitworths.

Hi David and Tac,

If possible could you post some more information and photos on the rifles made by Mr Martin Tebbs.

Regards, Peter B.

 

Any rifle is only as good as you prepare it and shoot it in any given match. I'm not certain what problems you have had with the Pedersoli's?
Mark

 

[Misplaced Rebel]

David,

The Euroarms, as I recall, has the same ROT as the original- Hex 1/20".

Now, if only I could find a Kerr and some paper-patched bullets...

:wink:
-Chris

 

[Robyn]

Hi Peter
yes I have a dragoons XI that looks like a charilville.....Just can,t place you????
I am in Taree-Wingham ssaa... anyhow thanks for your replies. Something tells me to go with the euroarms Whitworth, or three band Volunteer, or two band volunteer...I know I have to upgrade the sights with these rifles. in the past they have shot many records, a little twinkle in my mind tells me that the pedersoli gibbs is only beating these rifles because it comes out of a box ready to go and people are taking the easy way out....rather than developing the rifle..
:hmm:
I may be wrong about the pedersoli Gibbs...but I usually do things the hard way :nono:
regards Robyn

 

[broadarrow]

Hi Robyn

Good, glad I had the right person, please grab my email address from my profile and get in touch as I have heaps of info I have collected on the Whitworths and other long range muzzle loaders whilst I have been developing my rifles and I am only too happy to pass it on to you. I have one of each Whitworth available my Parker-Hale had been in various hands and was a little modified, bedded with epoxy, which is against our rules as you know and we have since corrected that. My Euroarms is currently being used as supplied except for the fitting of aftermarket sights, I can post some information here on accessories etc. for those that are interested to see what I gathered and what I am currently using. I seem to pick up that you dont mind working to develop a rifle and the Whitworth will reward you there as it is an extremely reactive rifle type to any changes in load configuration as you will come to see should you purchase one.

Regards, Peter B.

 

[zrifleman]

I love this!! I just got an email from Rick Weber with match results from the longe range muzzleloading match at Oak Ridge. There were 19 registered competitors with 12 of them shooting Pedersoli Gibbs. Guess who took 1st and 2nd place??? Pedersoli Gibbs. If memory serves correctly, last year at international match held in South Africa--Pedersoli Gibbs rifles took 1st and 2nd place. It's a good choice if you want a winner.