Long vs. Short barrel

[DeRoche117]

I just read in "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" that beyond 24 inches, accuracy is not really increased. I was surprised to learn that the longer barrels on early American firearms were more for aesthetics than for funtion. Could this be true? Why the heck would anyone want to lug around a really long gun when a short one would do just as good a job? Also, why does Green Mountain produce drop-in barrels at such long lengths (36" & 42")? The original barrel on my T/C Renegade was only 26".

 

[Mike Brooks]

Don't ever believe a word you read in that book. the guy doesn't have a clue. :shake:

 

[brubincam]

the longer the barrel--makes the sights farther apart giving a better sighting plane---meaning better acuracy

 

[tg]

The longer barrels as mentioned above offer a better sight plane thus potential better accuracy, in the originals the longer barrels may have ben considered ballisticaly better for the most efficient use of powder, and today there may be a limit of how much powder can be completely burnt in a 26" barrel vs a 42"barrel, when using heavy loads one may not get the benifit of all the powder in shorter barrels.

 

[Trench]

You're getting a more complete powder burn with the longer barrels resulting in more velocity.

 

[DeRoche117]

Wouldn't more friction from a longer barrel decrease velocity?

 

[boar]

I Seen a .50 Buckeye Rifle, fore runner of the TC White MT, shoot across my field, 90yrds, both conical&RB just as good as my .50 TC Hawken. It had a 21 or 22 inch barrel. Do it all day. I was hunting muzzleloading season with a friend who had a White MT flinter and he said his best shot was 170yrd to down a deer with a RB. His is 1-66 twist. My son-in-law had just got one like his, but his is 1-38 twist. He didn't have a shot while hunting. He had his loaded with a max-hunter. The buckeye had a scope on it. Dilly

 

[ryoung14]

Don't ever believe a word you read in that book. the guy doesn't have a clue. :shake:

Now you tell me. Why didn't someone speak up before I bought it? :nono:

 

[Trench]

Wouldn't more friction from a longer barrel decrease velocity?

I'm pulling this from memory, but I believe the pressure curve of black powder peaks at a barrel length of 46 inches. Anything more than that would result in a loss of velocity due to barrel friction.

 

[ryoung14]

Some figures from Lyman's most recent "Black Powder Manual & Loading Handbook":

Muzzle velocity for .54 PRB over 90 Gr. Goex FFG:
24" 1:48 barrel: 1567 fps
28" 1:48 barrel: 1555 fps
32" 1:60 barrel: 1480 fps
Loads from 70 to 110 Gr. showed a similar drop-off

Muzzle velocity for .54 PRB over 90 Gr. Pyrodex RS:
24" 1:48 barrel: 1561 fps
28" 1:48 barrel: 1626 fps
32" 1:60 barrel: 1628 fps

Muzzle velocity for .50 PRB over 90 Gr. Goex FFG:
24" 1:48 barrel: 1580 fps
28" 1:48 barrel: 1651 fps
32" 1:60 barrel: 1768 fps
This shows good gain with barrel length

Muzzle velocity for .50 PRB over 90 Gr. Pyrodex RS:
24" 1:48 barrel: 1664 fps
28" 1:48 barrel: 1725 fps
32" 1:60 barrel: 1768 fps

There appears to be some gain with increasing barrel length, but not always. Seems to depend on the load and the caliber....probably the barrel as well.

For a .54 with moderate loads of RS, it seems you reach a point of diminishing returns somewhere near 28". Heavy loads of FFG(120Gr.) show significant gain from 28" to 32", but the 24" barrel velocities are about halfway between those for the two longer barrels...

I'm with Old School. When it comes to barrels over 36 inches; I don't get it. Seems like 32" delivers about all you can reasonably expect.
Bob

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hello Old School,
It's obvious that not everybody can agree with everybody.
Just because one barrel is 24" long and another is 48" doesn't mean your velocity will double with the longer barrel.
In many cases if the barrel is too long, you will get diminishing returns, the same with too much powder.
The Lyman hand book on black powder shows this quite well.
As a craftsman, Peter Alexander is well recognized, as a long distance shooter, I'm not sure.
The " How To Books" and videos, on making muzzleloading rifles, are not too many.
Rest assured if you follow Peter's advice on making your rifle, you will do well, but also many other riflesminths can assist you with your project, but they may not have written a book about it, yet.
I have a copy of Peter Alexander's book, very informative, as well as George Shumway's book, also the video by Mr. House. Each have very valid points, and also contribute to making us better gunmakers, and a little more informed on this craft.
Best Regards
Old Ford

 

[DeRoche117]

???Now I learn from the history channel tonight that the backwoods soldiers and their long rifled barrels won the battle of King's Mountain over the British smoothbores because of their length and rifling? I'm not much for revisionist history. What the hell is the truth? The Lyman handbook might be a good start!

 

[D Sanders]

The muzzle velocity tends to increase with a longer barrel.

 

[Trench]

I'm reading up on that part of US history right now. It seems that too much credit is given to rifles during the revolution. Many of our generals disdained the use of rifle units because they couldn't fix bayonets and as a result were more likely to be charged after they loosed their shots. Reason being, the rifle took too long to reload.
Although there are some instances where the use of the rifle played out very well, rest assured the Revolution was won with good ole' muskets and European sytle tactics of the time.

 

[Zonie]

Some of the things that have been posted from the book "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" make me wonder.
The more posts about what the books author wrote that I see the less I think he knew when he wrote it. :shake:

 

[ohio ramrod]

Longer barrels gave the powder more time to burn. The powder used on the frontier was not nearly as consistant as we now have. A longer barrel gives a larger sighting radius for improved sighting but not really any more accuracy from the gun. There is a point where longer barrels actually reduce velocity.

 

[roundball]

"...that the backwoods soldiers and their long rifled barrels won the battle of King's Mountain over the British smoothbores because of their length and rifling?..."

Correct...a unit of riflemen was stationed at an extreme position out in front of the main US body, which was hidden well behind them in depressions and trees.

The rifleman were to extract casualties with deliberate aimed fire at the longer ranges possible with their rifles, before the british smoothbores came into range.

The unit of riflemen were ordered to give 3 aimed shots each, trying for officers whenever possible, then fall back to another position behind the main US force.

The strategy was to make the Brits think the rifleman had routed, the Brits rushed forward chasing after them, and right into a wall of fire from the hidden main force.

 

[SimonKenton]

They fell for the same stunt at Cowpens too. They took a long time to learn didn't they? :wink:

-Ray

 

[musketman]

in the originals the longer barrels may have ben considered ballisticaly better for the most efficient use of powder, and today there may be a limit of how much powder can be completely burnt in a 26" barrel vs a 42"barrel, when using heavy loads one may not get the benifit of all the powder in shorter barrels.

As noted above, back in the day the powder mixture was not always as consistent as we enjoy today, so the longer barrels were employed to extract every last millisecond of burn time to get the maximum benefits.

By today's standards, it falls to personal preference, if you want to get close to the originals, then one would strive for the longer lengths. Some wanted shorter barrels to fit their needs and had their muskets "sporterized" and shorten in length, the brown bess has undergone such alterations from time to time.

If you hunt heavy brush or wooded areas, the shorter barrel muzzleloaders would be a popular choice to keep from hanging up on the surrounding growth.

 

[roundball]

They fell for the same stunt at Cowpens too. They took a long time to learn didn't they? :wink:

-Ray

Cowpens is on Kings Mountain...different history sources use the names interchangeably...same place / same battle