Longer Reach

[nkbj]

I'm looking at going back to shot gunning and pondering some more reach than the old Navy Arms 12 side by side. Any yall know how large in diameter does the breech end need to be on flinter 12 and 10 gauge barrels?

 

[coloradoclyde]

Someone’s bound to ask so I will”¦..

How does the breech diameter affect the reach of a shotgun?
I don’t understand the relationship.

 

[Ken Cormier]

Me neither ) :idunno:

 

[bpd303]

I was thinking mount a set of 10ga barrels on a 12ga stock...maybe...

 

[coloradoclyde]

OK! now the lightbulb is starting to flicker

 

[stantdm]

A 12 ga. has a .729 bore and a 10 ga. is .775. How large the outside diameter of the barrel is in the breech area depends on the maker and will vary within the gauge.

What did you have in mind to do?

 

[nkbj]

Longer barrel 12 or 10 gauge, longer reach.
Perhaps some good data points would be the barrel diameters on the various .69 bore muskets. And the TC New Englander barrels that were supplied in 12.

 

[longcruise]

So, is "reach" defined as longer range? I was at first thinking LOP.

 

[Col. Batguano]

With 12L14 steel a lot of guys feel the minimum wall thickness shouldn't be less than .100". A good place to look would be the various barrel makers' web sites that give dimensions as to maximum caliber for every barrel profile, and you can do your own math from there. You might get away with something thinner, or then again, you might not.

Why don't you just build yourself a new 8, 6, or 4 gauge and then jug choke it to full choke if you want more reach?

Bear in mind that pressure drops off dramatically the further you get down the bore. A 30-`06 round has 10% of the chamber pressure 22" down the bore (with medium burning powders).

 

[nkbj]

I'll check that out. Thanks.

 

[hunts4deer]

You can't legally hunt waterfowl with anything larger than 10 gauge.

I've been doing a lot of reading about loads used for geese using Nice Shot (not toxic) in both muzzleloaders and modern shotguns. Apparently a lot of people do well with only 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz of #4 and say they get tighter patterns if they keep the velocity under 1250 fps, I think it was. And a muzzle loader is not likely to exceed that MV anyway.

A longer barrel will allow the shot to exit the muzzle with slighlty less pressure behind it, likely reducing that little "kick in the butt" from the wad that is apparently the most frequent cause of doughnut hole pattern.

There are several claims that they routinely knock geese dead at 40+ yards with only 1 oz of #4 Nice Shot.

Maybe the 1 1/2 oz magnum load idea is flawed...

The old 18th century poem Pteryplegia or the Art of Shooting-Flying says to let the partridge get out a full forty yards before you shoot him, or you destroy the meat if you shoot at 20 yards. Obviously they did something different back then and got betters patterns. Quite possibly we overload and get the opposite result than our intention.

 

[coloradoclyde]

There are several claims that they routinely knock geese dead at 40+ yards with only 1 oz of #4 Nice Shot.

Maybe the 1 1/2 oz magnum load idea is flawed...

From what I have seen your theory has merit.

I did some modern shotgun testing one day at 100 yards. 3/4oz handload versus a 2 oz magnum factory load on a turkey target. Both loads had about the same number of hits on target but the ¾ oz load penetrated the plywood backstop whereas the 2 oz load just bounced off.

 

[stantdm]

I have read that longer smoothbores do not shoot further than shorter smoothbores if the shorter barrel is long enough to burn the powder charge. I believe it around 30" that all the black powder is burned. Once maximum velocity is reached a longer barrel adds nothing to velocity.

It may offer a steadier sighting plane and in the same choke or lack thereof should pattern slightly tighter than a shorter barrel.

 

[nkbj]

Don't know yet but I've wondered if that once velocity has been achieved inside the barrel, if pressure reduction during subsequent travel while still inside the barrel can lessen the wads impact on the rear of load and thus reduce the amount of shot dispersion. Don't know, but I'm wondering if those longer barrels of yesteryear were longer because they worked better.
Reckon I might end up with a New Englander or a Renegade stock with a longer barrel.

 

[George]

I've never understood why people think the wad "impacts" on the rear of the shot. Both wads and shot travel as one unit, together, at the same velocity, the full length of the bore and exit the muzzle at the same velocity. Once the column exits the muzzle, all force from the rear disappears, stops being a factor. In my opinion, the idea that the wad blasts its way through the shot column is junk science.

Spence

 

[robinsroost]

I agree with Spence. The weight of the shot far exceeds the weight of the wad. Inertia is a property that shows us that when an object is in motion, it continues motion, in a straight line, unless acted upon by an outside force. In this case, there are several outside forces at work against our shot column, like gravity, and air resistance and possibly others. The wad, being much larger, in area, than the shot, is effected much greater by the air resistance, and slows down much faster, and falls aside much faster. The shot continues, on its path, for several more feet or yards. Robin :wink:

 

[jamesthomas]

Then what causes the "donut hole" in a shot pattern :idunno: .

 

[George]

I don't know, but the idea of the wad moving through the shot can be eliminated.

I've been using Circle Fly cushion wads pretty routinely since I started shooting BP shotguns. I don't get the most even patterns, but donut holes have never been a problem for me.

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

I have been trying to figure out the cause of a donut hole for quite some time but the problem is I have a really hard time producing them in the first place.
I have several theories but without the ability to consistently produce a donut hole I can’t accurately test my theories.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Then what causes the "donut hole" in a shot pattern :idunno: .

Probably concussive shock from the powder charge. Upping the shot-to-powder ratio usually helps. Like Spence, I've used the card/wad combo for decades without donut holes. Most shooters are tempted to up the powder charge for longer reach...not necessarily do they always go hand-in-hand. Paper shot cups are one solution of extending kill range for smoothbores. One of the best shooter of originals I've ever known made his shotgun paper cartridges using the then available plastic/fiber combo wads used to reload shotgun shells in the late 60's. He rolled them up in the paper tune with a wee shot of glue, poured in shot and tied off with string, poured in powder and folded the bottom shut, and then wiped the shot area of the paper tube with a small paint brush dipped in his lube mix. Tear off bottom with teeth, pour in powder and push cartridge into bore till only the string knot showed, slice top end off with small knife, insert over shot card and ram home. Aim...shoot...repeat! Nice photo of him holding a snow goose proves it worked! :wink: