Looking for a .50 RB load minimum

[gmww]

OK you Round ball enthusiasts. Emma (age 11) finally shot her home built underhammer today. It is attached to a .50 cal Round ball barrel. We finished the day with it shooting 6" groups at 75 yards using 50 grains of Goex 3f. Her first time on a ML. We will need to continue to find a sweet spot. At any rate I told her I'm going to slowly increase the charge as the summer practices progress.

Here is my question. What would be a minimum load for .490 RB on Whitetail deer? 70 yards would be the farthest.

 

[jtmattison]

IMO 80 grains of 3f.

HD

 

[roundball]

IMO 80 grains of 3f.

HD

Agree...I happen to use 90grns 3F for a deer load but IMO 80grns should easily get it done at 70yds.

NOTE: Like most people, I know from personal experience that 2F is softer in the recoil department so don't over look that particularly since she's a youngster...in fact, IMO 80grns 2F should be fine at 70yds as well.

 

[gmww]

Recoil is going to be the issue for her. She's tiny for her size. Heck she can't even pull back the hammer on the underhammer. But then again it a pretty stout trigger guard spring set up.

Hmmm 2f sounds promising. I was hoping a light load would do. The 50 grains of 3f was punching pretty good holes in that particle board at 75 hards. It was new stuff too. I wish I measured the thickness. I think it was a 4x8 sheet of 3/4".

A 10 year old in camp several year ago took a whitetail doe with 70 grns of 2f with a .45 cal roundball flinter. Ball did not pass through but it sure expanded nice.

My Lyman book says the RB starts out approximately at 1481 fps and is still 953 fps at 100 yards. (Using 50 grains of 3f)

Looking at the PSI I'm liking what I'm seeing in the 2f chart. Emma's current load @ 3f is 9,100 psi with 50 grains of 3f. With 80 grains of 2f it is 8,500 psi. Does psi translate to felt recoil?

 

[roundball]

Recoil is going to be the issue for her. She's tiny for her size. Heck she can't even pull back the hammer on the underhammer. But then again it a pretty stout trigger guard spring set up.

Hmmm 2f sounds promising. I was hoping a light load would do. The 50 grains of 3f was punching pretty good holes in that particle board at 75 hards. It was new stuff too. I wish I measured the thickness. I think it was a 4x8 sheet of 3/4".

A 10 year old in camp several year ago took a whitetail doe with 70 grns of 2f with a .45 cal roundball flinter. Ball did not pass through but it sure expanded nice.

My Lyman book says the RB starts out approximately at 1481 fps and is still 953 fps at 100 yards. (Using 50 grains of 3f)

Looking at the PSI I'm liking what I'm seeing in the 2f chart. Emma's current load @ 3f is 9,100 psi with 50 grains of 3f. With 80 grains of 2f it is 8,500 psi. Does psi translate to felt recoil?

I think its safe to say that it usually follows if there's less pressure generated, there will be less of an opposite reaction (less recoil).

And while those numbers don't seem all that much different, if you could plot them on a graph, you'd see that the real difference is that 3F produces a shorter, sharper pressure "spike" than 2F...whereas 2F is more of a slower, softer "curve" as it builds pressure...less kick.

Heck, if you felt pretty sure your shots would only be 50 yards, just load her up with 60grns 2F...The longest sidelock shot I've ever taken was 70 yards down a loggers road...99% of them are 25-40yds...in fact, under hunting conditions, you might not even want her trying a 70 yard shot.

 

[BrownBear]

Having been on hand for my own kids' first deer, I'd sure think about range first. Mine did the deed with CF rifles, but open sights. Asking for hits beyond 50 yards is a TALL order for an excited kid, much less adult.

With that in mind, I'd have no qualms about 70 grains of 3f or a charge of 2f to give equivalent velocities. Dropping from 80 to 70 with 3f results in a velocity loss of less than 100 fps. It's an even smaller difference as range stretches. The difference on deer at 50 yards would take a teeny tiny caliper to measure.

 

[gmww]

Thanks guys. I'm going to give the 2f a shot to see if she feels the difference. We will be shooting out of a blind with shooting sticks or possibly a sturdier blind window frame. Most of the shots I've taken with ML have been under 75 yards. If I can get the same spot as last year it will be 55 yards or less.

She's pretty good about keeping her head cool. She took a nice Ram from a blind in Tx and she called in a nice Tom turkey to within 14 yards for me to kill.

I'm also working with her on Skeet shooting this summer so she's getting a pretty good idea of what we will be doing this fall. :thumbsup:

 

[William Joy]

As I understand a normal hunting load in the 18 th century was approx 48 gr of powder for a 50 cal round ball........

 

[Rancocas]

IMHO a lot of guys in our current modern era use far more powder than is needed.
I use a .50 with roundballs for hunting deer, wild boar, and blackbear. My load is 70grs. of 3F.
My very UNscientific method of testing for adequate penetration is simply to set up a 2x6 pine board as a target. I figure if my roundball passes completely through the board then the load has enough power to also pass through a deer. So, set up the board at 75 yds., shoot it, and if the ball goes through it, then that load is adequate for deer size game at that range.
If you want to use 60grs. of powder - okay, set up the board and see at what maximum distance the load will push the ball completely through the board. If it only does it out to 50 yds, then keep all your shots at game at 50 yds or less.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

seems to me if she's able to shoot a skeet gun (20ga?) then a 70gr 3F charge in that .50 is no problem. like Rancocas that is my load, over that and groups start to open up in my .50. I camp out some and use a 30-30 caseful of 3F for plinking load - about 50 grs, and it still delivers a 'whack'.

 

[gmww]

seems to me if she's able to shoot a skeet gun (20ga?) then a 70gr 3F charge in that .50 is no problem. like Rancocas that is my load, over that and groups start to open up in my .50. I camp out some and use a 30-30 caseful of 3F for plinking load - about 50 grs, and it still delivers a 'whack'.

When we started on the bench with her gun I was thinking the same thing. She shot 20 ga a week earlier. Only 6 rounds but did well. She said the .50 rb felt like it had more recoil. Go figure. We're going to head out this morning and try some 2f. We'll start out at 55 and hopefully end up at 60 by the end or our session. Little steps.

 

[Dave K]

I think you are on the right track. It is still a ways off for deer hunting. Heck, if right now 40gr. is comfortable to her, let her shoot that. I am not sure what we all do, but it seems in time, we learn how to adjust to recoil. The best thing is to not let it get so, that the punch is punishing to the shooter and makes them recoil or gun shy. I am shooting Swiss 2F powder at 70gr. in my 50's. I would not be afraid to even deer hunt with 50gr. But, I also would look to shoot less than 50yds as well. Like any discussion, there are those who like 3F and those who like 2F. My preference is 2F, because I like the push from the recoil instead of the punch.

 

[gmww]

We went to the range this afternoon to continue Emma's introduction to ML. Our last trip ended with her shooting .50 RB with 50 grns. of 3f. I had intended on switching over to 2f today but I forgot the 2f and had to use the 3f. We started out with 55 grns. and she must of shot about 8 rounds. She was able to keep a decent group at 75 yards. I upped the charge to 60 grns. but I think she got tired. After a short rest I had her settle down and she shot her last two shots within 2" of one another. Wanted to end on a good note. She thinks she will be able to handle upping the charges now that I've added a nice shoulder insert to her vest.

Our next session we will start out at 65 grns. and end at 70 grns. :wink:

 

[longcruise]

Barrel length will play a part in the velocity you get with any charge size. Just looking at the pic it seems like her barrel is about 28" give or take a bit.

I killed a mule deer doe at about 70 yards with a .490 ball over 60 grains of 2f and the deer dropped on the spot. I normally would have been packing my .54 with 100 or more grains of powder but discovered a crack in the stock during the hunt and fell back on the .50 that was sighted for the 60 grain load.

I'm one of those guys who favors heavy powder charges but like another poster said above I think we way overestimate the charge we need for our big game loads.

So, if she can shoot 60 with accuracy I'd say don't push it any more than necessary just to keep her in her comfort zone.

Looks like you have a super outdoor girl there! Your a lucky dad.

 

[tg]

"Our next session we will start out at 65 grns. and end at 70 grns."

That will take deer at the ranges, even farther than you described, I always used around 70 gr. 3f in the .50 guns I have had with good results on deer, keep up the good work with the youngster we need a lot more of them learning the traditional ML ways.

 

[rkite]

Fifty grains of FFF is plenty for deer at 70 yards. That load will have no problems at 120 yards. I have seen my buddy kill 3 deer with his .40 cal (.390 ball) and 40 grains of 3F from 40 to 110 yards with no issues. I know .45 is the minimum cal you are supposed to use but traditionally most deer guns were from .40 to .45 cal. My buddy also has an original Leman used by one of his ancestors for deer hunting and it is .41 caliber.

 

[barebackjack]

Killed 8 does last fall with my .54 with .530 balls and 70 grs FFFG.

This was the load that shot best, and ill take accuracy over a little more oomph any day.

 

[jethro224]

I agree that accuracy is way more important than power. It really doesn't take much to poke a hole in a deers ribcage. If you can hit the lungs, the deer will go down.

Close shots are always preferred, but when the opportunity presents itself and you are confident that you can hit where you aim...

Lyman GPR, 70 grains Goex 2f, .490 patched round ball, 100 paced yards-

 

[Emet Huntsman]

I have taken javelina and whitetail with my .490 rb and 70grains 2f flint rifle. One time I had loaded up for rabbit and wound up taking a javelina with only 30 grains. had to reload and finish her off with 70. Not proud of the two shot kill, but the 30 gr 2f load punched a hole clean through her!

 

[paulvallandigham]

We can give you light loads, but you must understand that if you load the gun to shoot squirrels, or rabbits, you have to pass on that deer, or wild boar that comes sauntering into range of you, with the bullseye painted on its chest! :rotf: :blah:

For 25 yard shooting, try 27-30 grains of FFFg powder in that .50. it will give you plenty of penetration to kill small game, but you don't want to use it on large game.

50-65 grains is more than enough powder for shots at game out to 50 yards. Even small deer will be completely penetrated by a .50 cal. round ball with these " target " loads. MY first deer died with a shot that penetrated both lungs, and some major arteries, breaking ribs going and leaving the chest cavity, with only 65 grains of FFFg powder. The shot was at a paced off 40 yards. It doesn't take much more powder for those long shots out to 100 yards. But that is NOT what you asked about. You wanted reduced loads for small game hunting, and for practice shooting at short range targets. The lighter loads given will not recoil much at all, depending on the weight, and design of the stock, and how the shooter holds the gun. The 50 yard loads will push, but nothing severe.

If recoil is a serious issue, switch to using FFg powder instead of FFFg. Used the same loads. Work the amounts to find the " sweet spot " for your particular gun. I am using 75 grains FFg in my .50, for long range shooting, because it gives the best groups at 100 yards. The velocity is more than enough to kill a deer out to that distance. Since my longest shot on a deer to date is less than 50 yards, and most shorter than that, because of the way I hunt, I don't really expect to ever need to take such a long shot, or need more velocity. However, I understand why some guns need more powder, and why some members here put more powder in their guns for longer shots. Accuracy is the goal, and I was quite prepared to load more powder, and switch to FFFg to get more velocity, if needed to get better groups.