Looking for a specific ballistics chart

[Larry (Omaha)]

Lots of data out there, some good, some not so good. I am looking for a reliable RB trajectory chart showing caliber, grain weight, powder charge, at various ranges. Please no BP sub charts.
Flintlocklar

 

[hawkeye2]

http://ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/rbballistics.html

 

[Griz44Mag]

Lots of data out there, some good, some not so good. I am looking for a reliable RB trajectory chart showing caliber, grain weight, powder charge, at various ranges. Please no BP sub charts.
Flintlocklar

If you can provide me with your specifics I can feed your load into balisticarc.
That data needs to include your elevation, FPS at the muzzle, exact size of the ball you are shooting (not the caliber of the bore) and an average temperature you are designing around. At shorter ranges there is not a lot of change but beyond 100 yards the factors become very important.

 

[Carbon 6]

I am looking for a reliable RB trajectory chart

None are reliable IMO, they all leave out the critical variables, and discount the fact that inaccuracy of the shot can sometimes exceed the trajectory interval.
There's just no substitute for actual shooting IMO.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Thanks for the replies. I am looking for average info. I have just just joined a shooting club and they have up to 200 meters. Just for the fun of it I popped a couple down with my .495 and was way low. (not surprised) I was using my 100 meter, 80 gr 3F, charge. I was curious as to the average drop between 100 meters on center line of target to POI below 200 meters CL . My guess is about 24 inches between 100 and 200.
Flintlocklar

 

[Zonie]

The problem with your initial request is, you wanted a chart that would give "powder charge at various ranges". The nearest thing you can use to figure out the velocity at various ranges is a listing of test results in various guns for various powder charges.

About the only book that shows that information is the Lyman "BLACK POWER HANDBOOK 7 LOADING MANUAL". It lists hundreds of different powder loads that were tested. Once you have that book, then you can try to find one of their tests that comes closest to your gun and see what the different powder loads gave.
Once you have that velocity information, you can use the computer program that was linked up above to see what a round lead ball will do at that velocity. Download the program and install it on your system. I don't know if it will work on smart phones.

For instance, you say you were shooting a 30 grain load of 3F under a .495 diameter ball. You didn't say what your gun was or the type of powder you were using so I'm going to use the Lyman data for a 24", 1:48 twist .50 caliber barrel shooting real black powder.
The book says they got a muzzle velocity of 1631 ft/sec with an 80 grain powder load of GOEX 3Fg powder.

Plugging 1631 fps into my Roundball Trajectory calculator (like the one linked above), I find that if my aim point is at 100 yards, (that is one of the things you plug into the calculator to indicate where the sights are adjusted for). it says the velocity has dropped to 724 ft/sec at 200 yards and the ball that was hitting dead center at 100 yards will have dropped to 47.3 inches below the point of aim at 200 yards.

After traveling 100 yards, the velocity of the ball and the drop start rapidly increasing. Here's some of the data the program gives:

100 yards, V= 962 fps, drop = 0
140 yards, V = 855 fps, drop = -11.1"
160 yards, V = 810 fps, drop = -20.1"
180 yards, V = 766 fps, drop = -32.0"
200 yards, V = 724 fps, drop = -47.3"
220 yards, V = 683 fps, drop = -66.3"

I included the 220 yards figure because that is close to 200 meter's distance.

 

[flntlokr]

Lots of data out there, some good, some not so good. I am looking for a reliable RB trajectory chart showing caliber, grain weight, powder charge, at various ranges. Please no BP sub charts.
Flintlocklar

I remember seeing such in either one of Fadala's books or the Lyman loading manual I'll look.

 

[flntlokr]

I see Zonie has already done it. Have fun.

 

[SDSmlf]

What this video by Mike B, aka @duelist1954 on the forum. Should answer many of your questions, or at least get you started in the right direction.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Thanks for the replies. I am looking for average info. I have just just joined a shooting club and they have up to 200 meters. Just for the fun of it I popped a couple down with my .495 and was way low. (not surprised) I was using my 100 meter, 80 gr 3F, charge. I was curious as to the average drop between 100 meters on center line of target to POI below 200 meters CL . My guess is about 24 inches between 100 and 200.
Flintlocklar

Rule one - gravity is constant - no matter how fast the ball is moving.
In general terms - using some general data - IE FPS original speed is 1600 fps and your zero distance is 50 yards. Your actual velocity has to be known - as the slower the ball is moving the more time gravity has to work on it - vs the faster the ball is moving the less time gravity has to work on it.
At 100 yards drop would be about 4.8 MOA - or about 4.8*1.04 = 4.99"
At 200 yards drop would be 19.4 MOA - or about 19.4*2*1.04 = 40.35"
Of course there are many other factors, These factors are assuming you are shooting in an arc and the arc is accounted for in the calculation - if you shot perfectly level the ball would never reach 200 yards before hitting the ground.....

 

[Dale Lilly]

Lots of data out there, some good, some not so good. I am looking for a reliable RB trajectory chart showing caliber, grain weight, powder charge, at various ranges. Please no BP sub charts.
Flintlocklar

Hi. If you can find a Lyman Black Powder Handbook there are many pages in several formats. I have one and find it very useful. Mine was copyright 1975. You could likely find one on ebay books or amazon. Polecat

 

[longcruise]

If you can provide me with your specifics I can feed your load into balisticarc.
That data needs to include your elevation, FPS at the muzzle, exact size of the ball you are shooting (not the caliber of the bore) and an average temperature you are designing around. At shorter ranges there is not a lot of change but beyond 100 yards the factors become very important.

You also need the distance from the center of the bore to the top of the front sight.

There's no point in looking for trajectories based on powder charge. It's going to require velocity numbers. Best that can be done without a chronograph is a series of calculations using probable or expected velocities. I can easily do such a chart but need all the variables listed above.

 

[Griz44Mag]

You also need the distance from the center of the bore to the top of the front sight.

There's no point in looking for trajectories based on powder charge. It's going to require velocity numbers. Best that can be done without a chronograph is a series of calculations using probable or expected velocities. I can easily do such a chart but need all the variables listed above.

As with most decent ballistic software if you can fix the gun (in a bench clamp) and take two shots - one short range and one long range - then measure the actual drop and feed that data into the software it will calculate the actual BC for that round under those specific conditions.
The question is whether or not going to that much effort is worth all the time and energy it would take to produce that number? For a professional shooter who is earning his living shooting - probably yes, for most of us recreational shooters, probably not.

 

[tenngun]

Gravity is nearly constant and in ML ranges at least a constant. There is greater gravity at the end of the Arkansas River then high in the Rockies at its source but so little difference to be unnoticed.
Air pressure is likewise a factor. Ten thousand feet above sea level vs three hundred feet above sea level also makes a difference.... but not too much in ml ranges.
All in all get you a rest.
Set up a ply wood target or two by sixes.
Sight at your point blank, say seventy five yards. Then move to twenty five, fifty and a hundred. Hold the same, where do you hit?
That will tell you more then ballistic chart.
Will your ball cut two inches deep in wood? Then you have power enough for Bambi. Three inches gets you Bullwinkle.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Gravity is nearly constant and in ML ranges at least a constant. There is greater gravity at the end of the Arkansas River then high in the Rockies at its source but so little difference to be unnoticed.
Air pressure is likewise a factor. Ten thousand feet above sea level vs three hundred feet above sea level also makes a difference.... but not too much in ml ranges.
All in all get you a rest.
Set up a ply wood target or two by sixes.
Sight at your point blank, say seventy five yards. Then move to twenty five, fifty and a hundred. Hold the same, where do you hit?
That will tell you more then ballistic chart.
Will your ball cut two inches deep in wood? Then you have power enough for Bambi. Three inches gets you Bullwinkle.

LOL, I'll say the sight picture from the Arkansas river to the tip of the Rockies is gonna take one powerful scope - say something the size of the Palomar Observatory telescope. Now you just have to figure out how to mount it......
Probably gonna need a pretty stiff powder charge to go with it.....
But you are correct that is one of the factors. The software I use does takes the Barometric pressure, and the elevation into account, even the spinning effect accountable via latitude and longitude. These do make a difference at 1,000 yards and up. And yes - I have seen the videos of the black powder shooters at 1,000 yards. I don't think the OP was talking about distances that great though - at least for right now.
Come on over to the Hide and you can get into some really great details of shooting long.

 

[longcruise]

Thanks for the replies. I am looking for average info. I have just just joined a shooting club and they have up to 200 meters. Just for the fun of it I popped a couple down with my .495 and was way low. (not surprised) I was using my 100 meter, 80 gr 3F, charge. I was curious as to the average drop between 100 meters on center line of target to POI below 200 meters CL . My guess is about 24 inches between 100 and 200.
Flintlocklar

Here's the OP's original goal. N9thing to do with penetration or bambi. Just looking for some starting point for his planned 200 meter shooting

 

[Griz44Mag]

In order to do longer ranges repeatedly and reliably (same thing I think) an adjustable and measurable rear sight goes a very long way toward that goal. Whether an adjustable ramp type, elevator (vernier) or threaded post (Pedersoli style ghost ring) the issue is resolved. I use a Pedersoli ghost ring, and have notes on how far up to take the ring for each distance. Simple and repeatable. And that leaves only the wind to account for - and wind can be a big factor with a round ball.
After mounting the ghost ring I went out to the range and started working up the distances, one full turn at a time until I got close, then half turns until I was there. I have a note table in my phone with the information so it is readily available. And yes - the phone is traditional (well at least it's in a leather holster.....)

 

[longcruise]

It's also helpful to have an assistant to spot for you through a good spotting Scope.

Once when doing a silhouette match I was spotting for another shooter from directly alongside of him as he shot at the 200 meter rams. He was shooting a 40 so the misses didn't always show up to the naked eye. However, I was able to see the balls and could actually call his shots before they got there.

 

[Griz44Mag]

It's also helpful to have an assistant to spot for you through a good spotting Scope.

Once when doing a silhouette match I was spotting for another shooter from directly alongside of him as he shot at the 200 meter rams. He was shooting a 40 so the misses didn't always show up to the naked eye. However, I was able to see the balls and could actually call his shots before they got there.

When you are at a match or just plinking and you have a spotter for longer ranges it's a big plus to get tuned in.
Some matches do not allow spotters, thus forcing the shooters to have their guns and mind already tuned up and ready to rock.
Some of the long range matches I have been to have shot\miss restrictions - you skip one off the ground ahead of the target you are done for the day. A miss that hits the berm or backstop is still OK to continue. In one match I did first shot earned more points than second shot - third less than 2nd etc.... with 5 shot limits. Best to get all the holdovers down pat for the distances beforehand.

 

[TomV]

Dexadine's Free Software Is a good ballistics calculator for any rifle.