Looking for first flinter--Help!

[ceb]

A little background, I have always shot and hunted with percussion guns, I have owned a TC Renegade in .54cal for many years. I just purchased a Green Mountain .54cal round ball barrel for it which I look forward to hunting with this fall. Being a traditionalist at heart, I have always wanted a flintlock, and something a bit more period correct. Maybe a smaller caliber, more suited for small game and target. I look at the rifles at Track of the Wolf and drool, but a full custom is out of my range. TVM may be a possibilty. Any suggestions for a gray headed old fat man that waited far too late in life to get into this.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Why not start with a LYman Great plains Rifle ( GRP) in flint, and in .50 caliber? It will serve you well for deer hunting. You can load it down to 35 grains of FFg for hunting rabbits, and squirrels, or shooting varmints.

 

From another old fat guy(and bald)with failing eyes,in short, try out a smoothbore.

 

[tg]

I'm in the same demographic, 'cept for the fat part, and concur that a smoothbore will give you a good all around game getter, ERA has some good prices on their guns.

 

[Dphar]

This will likely ruffle some feathers...
I see there are those advocating a smoothbore.
I guess misery loves company.
I attended the RM Nats this year and they held a smooth bore match over the same course of fire as the rifles. Targets were generally big and close.
Best SB score was 15 out of 20 (in spite of the small groups at least one shooter claimed his smoothie produced). I was over this course 3 times. The worse score was 15, this with a new rifle that, I found on further testing, did not shoot very well and was not even sighted in. Shot 6" high at 100 I found out later. But I just HAD to shoot it.
If you plan to shoot small shot by all means get a smooth bore.
Shooting single round balls in a smoothbore is silly. If you can shoot a single round ball from a smoothbore it can be fired from a rifle far more accurately. IE if you can hit it with a ball from a smooth bore you can hit it more reliably with a ball from a rifle.
I really hate KNOWING I had a perfect hold, shooting prone at an antelope is one I remember, perfect trigger control and then missing because the ball sailed off of some complex curve like a BB from my old model 25 Daisey.
Yes folks I have hunted with a smoothbore. It was neat and different after all. But its just too random for the places I hunt and the ranges I shoot at.

Dan

 

[Many Klatch]

Ceb, Dan Pharis has a valid point. If you are going to hunt antelope in Montana, then you need a rifle. However, since you are in Southern Illinois you probably have a few more trees and brush. Those 150 yard shots are not really necessary. I like smoothbores, they are a lot of fun. I particularly like them since my eyes can't really see the rear sights anymore.

You might want to start coming to the NMLRA shoots at Friendship, IN to look at the used guns on trade blankets. There are some pretty good deals out there. It is a cheap way to get a custom gun.

Many Klatch

 

[cowpoke1955]

I have to agree with the other old fat guys(I have my hair). Try looking at Early Rustic Arms. They have a few rifles that come in .40 and .45 cal. They also have a lot of smooth bores. The prices just might be better for you. Here is their link:[url] http://www.earlyrusticarms.com/index.html[/url] .

 

[fw707]

ceb, a full custom gun is out of my range too, but I've bought 3 very nice guns "in the white" from Tip Curtis in Cross Plains, Tennessee.
He builds a fine gun with top quality parts and they are fully functional when you get them. All you need to do is a little finish work on the wood and brown or blue the barrel. If you're interested I'll find a phone number for Tip.
I think it would be hard to find a better gun for the money. :wink:

 

[tg]

"Shooting single round balls in a smoothbore is silly"

I figured you would throw that in inspite of the tremendous popularity of smoothbore hunting with ball in sub 50 yd situations by many long time hunters, your position simply does not hold up when one looks at the veteran smoothbore hunters who hunt in close range conditions, the above quoted statement is what is silly and irresponsible as it does not represent the facts, and I have no interest in sparing with you on this again you obviously have little knowledge of what a smoothbore with ball can do and have little cause to advise on such matters.

 

[Stumpkiller]

While there is nothing I hold in higher regard as a hunting firearm than a flintlock rifle, I also have to take exception to the "silly" label on a round ball from a smoothbore. Out to 60 yards, maybe farther in some hands or with a smooth rifle with adequate front and rear sights, they are darned effective harvesting tools. A .60 to .75 hole through a critter lets a lot of life out and in short order.

IMHO "silly" is trying to wing-shoot grouse with a Bess. Tried that for years. :haha: Gotta say a .54 rifle wouldn't have done much better.

When most shots are 40 yards or less, as in the thick woodlots where I hunt whitetail, a smoothbore is good enough. Lately I do rely on a rifle, but I sure wouldn't starve with a smoothbore.

 

[roundball]

After years of various caplock then Flintlock rifles, I was reenergized a few years ago when I got my first Flint smoothbore...a .54cal/.28ga which I promptly used to fill 6 deer tags that year with Hornady .520's...shot like a rifle to the 50yds I zeroed it...never bothered to test it beyond that as my max shot in the woods where I hunt is only 50-60yds.

The following year I got a .62cal/.20ga Flint smoothbore and filled 6 tags that fall with it using .595s, shot like a rifle at the same 50 yard zero like the .54cal had.

Then I also had the good fortune of bringing a couple turkeys across the 40 yard line in front of the .62cal loaded with #6s this past spring.

Smoothbores are outstanding, versatile muzzleloaders for sure and if I could only have one Flintlock, the choice would be a no brainer...

:thumbsup:

 

[gacitizen]

My 20 bore fowler, without exception will hit a twelve inch paper plate at eighty-five yards. Recently, at the range I let a fellow shoot her who had never even shot flint or any other kind of BP arm and he hit the plate also at the eighty-five yard line.

 

[Bobby_Ironsights]

I asked this question about getting a traditions.

Every post was about how crappy they were, and how if I bought one it would never reliably spark and if it did spark, it wouldn't fire.

I was told I had to buy a flinter worth at least a grand to get a functional weapon.

I ignored the advice and got a tradtions hawken with double set triggers.

It's a fine peice, well made, and shoots accurate, nice wood, and it has the finest trigger I've got in my collection, once the trigger is "set".

It's got absolutely no creep and trigger pull is a few scant ounces.

It's lover-ly.

AND it's got a lifetime warranty!

 

[MercerLake]

:grin: Ceb, the Lyman GPR in flint or cap is a great production rifle for a reasonable price. If your eyes are begining to age then a peep/ghost-ring sight will certainly help.
I use a .62/20bore smooth-bore 38" barrel with a silver "pinched heart" front sight and can find it in very low light against dark hairy targets very well. With a .600"rb in a .010" patch this gun shoots as well offhand as I do with my rifles. But I'm primarily interested in minute of bear or elk. I consistantly shoot better scores with it on the "trail walks" than with my rifles, again due to seeing the front sight better as it has a longer barrel placing the front sight farther away. On the bench I can shoot regularly into 3-4" groups at 50 yards. With my best rifle a .54 Hawken style with a 30" barrel I can do 3-4" at 100 yards on a GOODDAY.
If the ranges are within the 60-70 yard distance then a "smoothy" works for me, BUT if you are in the wide open spaces then a well sighted rifle would be the better choice. Shop around and try some other shooters guns. Have fun! :v

 

[benvenuto]

My only advice is buy the best you can afford with a large well made lock from a quality manufacturer (such as Jim Chambers). Nothing will annoy you more than a cheap tinny lock that just won't ignite reliably.

OK, maybe a really horribly made barrel will annoy you more but you need to ignite the powder first to see how badthe barrel shoots :haha:

(I had both on my first flinter by the way and wasted 4 years I could have been learning to shoot straigter)

 

[Tommy Bruce]

One thing about buying a custom or semi-custom gun, you will usually have a wait so that will give you more time to save up money. My advice would be to look at and shoot as many flintlocks as you can and read as much as possible. Find a gun you like and save for it instead of buying a settle-for gun and then trying to make yourself like it. Go to the local library ask them to get in Rifles of Colonial America vol I and II. Or buy them. You may also ask about Tom Grinsdale's book on Colonial Fowlers as well. Ask yourself what you expect out of your flintlock. What kind of hunting? What type of terrain? If you want to bullseye squirrels, then go with a .32 or .36 cal rifle. If you'd like to do some rabbit hunting along with squirrel and maybe throw in some upland game along with a deer hunt within 60 yards or so go for the smoothbore. No one is going to say they will shoot with a rifle at a distance but try throwing a load of shot down your rifle and going bird hunting.

 

A nice looking Southern Mountian rifle in .45 cal. just showed up on Track this morning, and it's only $650. Good price for a custom gun. Remember ya got 10 days to send it back. Big enough for deer, and small enough for squirrels. Wish I'd seen it yesterday before buying something else.

Bill

I love being married. It's so nice to have that someone special to annoy the rest of your life!

 

[tg]

"After years of various caplock then Flintlock rifles, I was reenergized a few years ago when I got my first Flint smoothbore...a .54cal/.28ga which I promptly used to fill 6 deer tags that year with Hornady .520's...shot like a rifle to the 50yds I zeroed it"

Now we gotta call ya Silly Billy....(VBG)

 

[ceb]

Thanks for the ideas fellers. I hadn't really thought of a smoothbore, but I can certainly see its versatility. Truth be known, the longest shot I ever had to take on a deer was about 75yds and that ball out of my Renegade handled that just fine. I haven't throwed shot at a squirrel since I was a teenager though, usually using a rifle or handgun and a lot of times my bow.

One feller suggested a Chambers Kit, I might think on that. There pretty pricy, but you can end up with a beautiful rifle. I've built longbows and recurve bows since the late eighties, so I could probably handle the job.

I need also to find the schedule for Friendship. I was there once, but at a traditional bow shoot. I know of no one in my area that shoots flintlocks that I could try. Still leaning toward a smaller caliber rifle. 45 would be legal to use for deer here if I choose to. Decisions, Decisions.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu can find a link to the NMLRA site here, under member resources. Call them, and join the association. Muzzle blasts lists all the shoots and events at Friendship, well in advance, so you can mark your calendar. As a member, you have access to the range over there all year round. You are probably no more than a 3 hour drive from the range. While that's a long way to go, when you can shoot anytime you want in the Shawnee National Forest, its worth the drive to meet other flintlock shooters, and visit the commercial dealers who attend the larger events.