Looking to improve accuracy

[flyfish]

Hi everyone,
I joined this forum a couple of years ago and found it to be an amazing place.
I was new to muzzle loading at the time (still am)and I got some help and good advice from some of you. Life kind of got in the way so I've been away for a couple of years.
I wasn't even sure my account still worked but here I am so I guess it does.
I have a Lyman Great Plains Hunter. I have shot both patched round balls and the Great Plains conical from this gun. When I first got this gun I shot it quite a bit and thought I was doing well with it, although not as good as I thought it or me should or could do. I missed a deer with it a week ago that should have been a slam dunk shot. I will admit I have not shot this past year as much as I should have and really have no one to blame other than me. BUT, with this miss it has renewed my determination to get this gun (and me) shooting the way it should.
So if I could ask for a little help and insight to this whole muzzle loader accuracy thing. It would be greatly appreciated.
As I said, I'm shooting a Lyman Great plains hunter. I believe it has a 1:32 twist. I am currently using 80 grs of Pyrodex powder. I'm shooting either Hornady round balls or the 325gr GP conical bullet. My groups had been OK but not as consistent or as tight as I thought they should be. I had played around with different patch thickness but didn't really see much difference. I know I need more range time but if some one can give me an idea on what things I should concentrate on first or any other info that will help me achieve the accuracy and consistency I'm looking for or the gun is capable of giving me , it would be greatly appreciated. I have to ask, will RB's work in a 1:32 twist barrel? Oh. yeah, I'm shooting with open sights.
Wow, that kind of long winded :shocked2:
Thanks in advance for any help and/or assistance.
Dave

 

[SgtErv]

After a bad day at the range, I revert back to some Army training. My biggest issue is trigger squeeze - sometimes I jerk it. There's a drill you can do wherein you place your ramrod in the barrel, balance a coin on ramrod, and dry fire. If you're squeezing it well and not pulling, the coin will stay balanced.

That and breathing. The natural pause works. (Inhale, then exhale - take note of that natural second between inhaling and exhaling. That's the ideal time to squeeze.)

I'll let the other guys weigh in on loads and ammunition, as they're way more well versed than me. Above are just some basics I had drilled into me in a sniper course

 

[SgtErv]

After a bad day at the range, I revert back to some Army training. My biggest issue is trigger squeeze - sometimes I jerk it. There's a drill you can do wherein you place your ramrod in the barrel, balance a coin on ramrod, and dry fire. (With something protecting the nipple of course). If you're squeezing it well and not pulling, the coin will stay balanced.

That and breathing. The natural pause works. (Inhale, then exhale - take note of that natural second between inhaling and exhaling. That's the ideal time to squeeze.)

I'll let the other guys weigh in on loads and ammunition, as they're way more well versed than me. Above are just some basics I had drilled into me in a sniper course

(Sorry, posted this twice)

 

[don hepler]

I'm a few years older than you, but I spent a lot of years hunting with scoped rifles. Now that I'm back to the open sight guns, there has to be some time in getting reacquainted with hunting with open sights. I shoot a lot of rimfire, and small caliber cap lock rifles, so I can get in a lot of open sight practice. I use the latest high tech. eye glasses, with progressive lenses. I make sure to take a rest, when I shoot at a deer. Peep sights help a lot. Now as far as your rifle, with 1 in 32 twist, it will probably shoot a round ball, but not at max. loads. I've got good accuracy out of a 1 in 20, but I had to reduce the load.

I know this sounds like a lot of mixed up information, but going back to traditional hunting, after years of modern hunting, takes more than just an accurate load, to be back on track to successful hunting.

If accuracy is only good to 50 yards, then limit hunting shots to that distance.

I shoot better at age 65 than I did when I was young. But, I've had to consider all things, changing sights, practice, taking closer shots and passing on longer ones. A gun that will only shoot a 3" group at 50 yards, will still do the job.

 

[Canute Rex]

I've never owned a fast twist rifle, but everything I've read and heard is that you need to use a reduced load with a round ball. With a fast twist and a regular powder load you need the added surface area of a conical to prevent the projectile from "skipping" in the rifling. 1:32 is about twice what people suggest for a round ball twist, at least in the larger calibers. That could be what's behind the inconsistency.

In addition, with a round ball you should use the tightest ball/patch combination you can manage.

 

[flyfish]

As always thanks for the info. I will try reducing the load for the RB's. The conical don't shoot that well either. Or not the way I think they should any way.

 

[Dwight Rutherford]

What are your expectations? At what distances?

 

[flyfish]

I guess if I could keep three or four shots in a 2 or 3 inch circle at 50 yards would be good.I'm not sure what's possible.
Just and FYI, with my modern 257 Roberts I can almost have 4 shots touching at 100 yards ( if I'm having a good day) I reload for that rifle.
I like to be as accurate as the weapon will allow. Putting me in the equation and :surrender: (sometimes)

 

[FishDFly]

"I know I need more range time but if some one can give me an idea on what things I should concentrate on first or any other info that will help me achieve the accuracy and consistency I'm looking for or the gun is"


You answered your own question..

There is no correct answer, the answer is time at the range and learning your rifle.

 

[Boomerang]

Once you get the right patch, lube, powder, and ball/bullet combination. You should be able to get 2 or 3 inch groups at 100 yards off a rest and possibly even better than that. It's just a lot of experimentation and range time. :hatsoff:

 

[Shifty]

Hey it will shoot the RB but probly not accurately with that much powder, drop down to a little less than half the 80 grns you are using and start from there patch thickness and lube will also have and affect but get the most accurate powder charge first then work on the other two things but one at a time.
I have that same rifle and with the 385 grn Great plains bullet it will shoot 4" groups at 150yds ,i will not tell you my powder or charge though,but you are getting close with yours.I will shoot fairly good groups with RB with anywhere from 35 to 50 grns FFG up to 50yds i have not shot those past that range.
Those are good shooting rifles,and i think after you have every thing worked out you will be happy with it.

 

[flyfish]

Richard, Boomerang,
Thanks, and yes I guess I kind of knew that.
Here's "MY" issue. As much as I like to shoot my muzzle loader it falls in about third place behind fly fishing and shooting my traditional bow. I read here on this form that there are about 99 kazillion different lube possibilities to put on the patches. To be perfectly honest, I don't have the time, money or energy to try all the different possibilities. Yes, I know this is my problem and if I want a good or even great shooter I need to experiment.
And maybe when I retire ( come on retirement)I will do just that. But in the mean time I'm trying get an idea of what my choices are with out getting into this deeper than I already am. Kind of want to stay married too :shocked2:

 

[flyfish]

Shifty,
THANKS!
That really helps. I guess I need to start again and see what I can do.
My wife and I have about 1,200 maple taps ( for making maple sugar)and the dang animals chew the lines which is a bad thing. Sugaring season is fast approaching and lines need to be fixed so I'm afraid that I will have to put muzzle loader shooting on the back burner until spring.
Again, thanks for the input.

 

[Shifty]

For patch lube I think Mink Oil from Track of the Wolf is as good as it gets neetsfoot oil is fine too i get mine from farm supply stores ,these are good lubes for target and for hunting use,you can just use spit for target use if you want accurate as any.I use pillow thicking for patchs you can get different thichness just experiment.
And if you can find it in your area maybe get you some real Black Powder and try.

 

[flyfish]

I bought some real black powder back a while ago and that is/was on my list of things to try. Did I mention I need to retire. :haha:

 

[TexasBAD]

Greetings flyfish, I, like you love fly fishing and traditional archery and am somewhat new to black powder shooting. There is a member on this forum who's accuracy method was vary valuable to me when I started out. His name is Dutch Schoultz.

His web site: http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com

I ordered his printed accuracy method from him and am ever grateful for doing so. Check it out.

Best wishes,
David

 

[flyfish]

TexasBad,

Thanks, will do.

Dave

 

[will5a1]

FWIW I found that using an overpowder wad (i.e. wonderwad) really helped tighten up my groups with the Horandy GP bullet. Ditching the adjustable (aka constant random shifting) rear sight helps, or at least it helped me, the fixed rear sight you should have received with the rifle will work fine.

Try to seat the bullet firmly but don't pound it and mash it into the powder, be as consistent as you can with ramrod pressure. Dutch's system is worth the investment.

Good luck and welcome back.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have been helping a few guys with the same rifle as you have. They are using my load and that is a Lee 500S&W bullet, paper patched and sized to .501. They use a over powder wad that measures .62" in diameter over 80 grains of pyrodex P.
This was a group I was sent from one guy it was a 100 yard target. Again it was the same rifle as you have.

I have shot this load out of Green Mountain barrels, TC White mountain carbines. There are others that have used the lymans, and many other rifles. This load just shoots.
I will say that you should get sub 2" groups at 100 yards. I have shot better groups and others have too. But 2" is quite easy to get.

 

[lone hunter]

What caliber are we talking about here? I have a 54cal. coming next week and am following this closely.