LOP question...........

[ETipp]

I have two ML that have the same basic design. A Traditions Crockett and a Lyman's GPR. Best of my measurements, the Crockett is about 13" LOP. The GPR is close to 14" LOP.

The GPR LOP feels a bit long whereas the Crockett might feel a bit short.

I measured myself and came measured to be close to 14" LOP.

I can shoot the GPR with great accuracy but I've always had to fight my Crockett rifle some. Not sure why that is and that's what I'm trying to find out. So I thought I would begin with LOP.

Input?

 

[Rifleman1776]

There is no absolute number. What fits and feels right for you is the right length. It could be anywhere from 11" to 16".

 

[Grenadier1758]

The drop at the heel is also a major part of the fit of the rifle, not just the length of pull.

 

[ETipp]

The drop at the heel is also a major part of the fit of the rifle, not just the length of pull.

Thanks, Gren.

Indeed. I’ve been researching that as well trying to zero in on this. Never had this issue before in all my years out of many rifles. Definitely something there, just gotta figure it out. Thought I’d begin with LOP.

 

[Phil Coffins]

There’s a lot of measurements that can affect the fit of a stock, fortunately the human body can adapt to a wide range. In a firearm that must be quickly fired this is more important but for deliberate aiming as long as you can get behind the sights you’re good to go. I’ve shot a couple of my buddys “PX commando rifles” both bolt and auto loaders I struggle to cheek either one yet was able to hit a ten inche plate at 1000 yards. I shot mostly right handed guns left handed my whole life and have success both on targets and game. A nice fitted gun is desirable but sometimes we may over think what we need. Especially on a cold winter day!

 

[ETipp]

There’s a lot of measurements that can affect the fit of a stock, fortunately the human body can adapt to a wide range. In a firearm that must be quickly fired this is more important but for deliberate aiming as long as you can get behind the sights you’re good to go. I’ve shot a couple of my buddys “PX commando rifles” both bolt and auto loaders I struggle to cheek either one yet was able to hit a ten inche plate at 1000 yards. I shot mostly right handed guns left handed my whole life and have success both on targets and game. A nice fitted gun is desirable but sometimes we may over think what we need. Especially on a cold winter day!

Agreed.

However, and as I have stated, I have never ran into this situation before. Been shooting since I was a kid, owned and shot lots of different firearms of all sorts, but this one is different.

I just did a little test. I picked up each ML, closed my eyes and shouldered each one, then opened my eyes. The GPR is darn near perfect, in terms of vertical sight alignment. The Crockett rife is way, way high. In other words, I must put my cheek down lower on the stock. I've known this since I first got rifle, but I've never given it this test. It became painfully obvious when I was trying to sight it in, as well as after I installed different sights. Even with a taller front sight and a very adjustable peep, its still way out of vertical alignment/line of sight. In other words, I must position my face lower on the stock to get an accurate alignment for any hopes of accuracy.

So what is causing this? I'm thinking the drop the comb of the stock.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Place a long straight edged item over the sights then measure the drop to the comb at the front and rear of each. You can do this by turning the rifle upside down on a table if you find that easier. Compare the two, and you should have the answer.

 

[ETipp]

Place a long straight edged item over the sights then measure the drop to the comb at the front and rear of each. You can do this by turning the rifle upside down on a table if you find that easier. Compare the two, and you should have the answer.

I tried to run a straight line down it, Phill, but I'm going to have to remove both peeps to do so. When I get some help I can do as you say and lay them upside down on a table and measure.

But I think I might have it figured out. By changing where the butt stock sits on my arm with my Crockett, I can get a more natural aim. Just have to put it farther out towards my biceps than what I do with my GPR. Not able to shoot for a while due to recent knee replacement and being on a walker. But as soon as I'm able to leave the house and get out some, I plan on giving it a test run.

Not sure if this will rectify all the issues but its a start anyway.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Hard to measure for length of pull. There is not trick like elbow to bent trigger finger. Go with what's comfortable in clothes that will be used when shooting and the other more precise measurements are determined from there.

 

[wiscoaster]

....but I've always had to fight my Crockett rifle some. Not sure why that is and that's what I'm trying to find out. So I thought I would begin with LOP.

Input?

You might try wearing a recoil pad; that's going to add about a half inch to an inch LOP without doing a thing to the rifle, and might help you decide whether that's the factor that's adversely influencing your shooting experience:
Recoil pad on Amazon

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I agree with the clothing for starters. Wear a heavier shirt when shooting the shorter stocked rifle. That will give you a little extra length if you need it.

You could wrap some leather or something similar around the butt plate to extend it to see if that helps.

Wiscoaster

 

[oldwood]

One common mistake I've seen made , especially by military trained black rifle shooters , they seem to hold their rifles with neck crained foreward. M/l rifle stocks are made so the head is laid against the comb , with the eye in line naturally to the center line of the sights. One indicator of this situation is , the comb hits the shooter in the face when fired. I had to take both the guys to the range , and simply show them their error. No facial pain after that.

 

[Rebel bull]

the drop at the comb is more then likely your problem I myself can shoot a t/c renagade to almost perfection (for me) but cannot for the life of me shoot a t/c, or investarms hawkin to save my soul

 

[reddogge]

I can tolerate a little shorter LOP but I have a rifle I built in 1978 which was a kit and has a full 1" longer LOP. I can't shoot that gun for anything. I'm going to shorten it this winter.

 

[ETipp]

Honestly, LOP has never been an issue for me in over 50 years of shooting many different rifles/shotguns.

I think I have it figured out now but its going to be a little while before I can put my theory to the test.

 

[waksupi]

Industry standard on LOP is 13.5". It has been for many years.

 

[longcruise]

So what is causing this? I'm thinking the drop the comb of the stock

Nope! Your face is too long. You need cosmetic surgery.

 

[ETipp]

Nope! Your face is too long. You need cosmetic surgery.

LOL, that’s gotta be it.

 

[LME]

I tried to run a straight line down it, Phill, but I'm going to have to remove both peeps to do so. When I get some help I can do as you say and lay them upside down on a table and measure.

But I think I might have it figured out. By changing where the butt stock sits on my arm with my Crockett, I can get a more natural aim. Just have to put it farther out towards my biceps than what I do with my GPR. Not able to shoot for a while due to recent knee replacement and being on a walker. But as soon as I'm able to leave the house and get out some, I plan on giving it a test run.

Not sure if this will rectify all the issues but its a start anyway.

Thanks for the help.

You don't have to remove your sights. Use two blocks under the barrel at each end of the barrel. Put something to hold the rifle down heavy coat or whatever you want. If the blocks are say three inches thich just subtract that amount from your measument. You have your drop.you also can get your LOP by eye.

 

[ETipp]

You don't have to remove your sights. Use two blocks under the barrel at each end of the barrel. Put something to hold the rifle down heavy coat or whatever you want. If the blocks are say three inches thich just subtract that amount from your measument. You have your drop.you also can get your LOP by eye.

I was able to measure the drop as is off of the corner of a table.

Also, LOP is not the issue.